Luminance – Sunsets and Cliches

Dina wanted to walk to Blakeney to take photos of the sunset at high tide. Master’s and Siri’s objections were strong and loud. “We’ll join you if you insist on doing our daily exercise walk at high tide sunset, BUT we will NOT post any sunsets on our blog, NO WAY, sunsets are CLICHES!

Letzte Wochen wollte Dina zu unserem Nachbarort wandern, um den Sonnenuntergang bei Flut zu fotografieren. Da war etwas los, die Einwände wurden lautstark vom Masterchen und Siri vorgebracht: “Wir kommen nur mit für unsere tägliche Bewegung, ABER auf unserem Blog kommen Sonnenuntergänge und solche Klischees nur über unsere Leichen!

How Dina edited “Juno” to get the soft painterly effect: It’s like a bit of magic, just one slider:
in LR or PS, Camera Raw → Sharpening → Noise → Luminance, push the Luminance slider all the way up to remove the noise and adjust the effect with Luminance Detail.
Noise is texture and when you remove it, the image becomes a painterly touch.

The first version of “Juno” is lightened with the SCREEN mode in Photoshop, the second version is darkened with the SOFT LIGHT mode.

Dina:
Is it so wrong to take pictures of things that are beautiful? Have we become so snobby that you do no longer recognise things that are obviously attractive to us?

Es kann doch so falsch nicht sein, vom Schönen Bilder zu machen, oder? Seid ihr denn so hochnäsig, dass ihr nicht mehr das anerkennen wollt, was gefällt?

Kb:
A picture’s attraction is connected with the special. We see sunset pictures everywhere, in calendars, in travel guides and the net is full of them. We are filled up with them.

Die Attraktivität eines Bildes hängt mit dem Besonderen zusammen. Sonnenuntergangsbilder kennen wir von Kalendern, die man als Kunde von seinem Krämer vorm dem Jahreswechsel geschenkt bekommt, sie dürfen in Reiseführern nicht fehlen und für so manchen Fotografen im Netz, scheint die Welt nur aus Sonnenuntergängen (den Rest sind Sonnenaufgänge) zu bestehen. Wir sind mit Sonnenuntergangsbildern abgefüllt.

Dina:
What is a cliche to you? If I think of a cliche, I don’t necessarily think golden sunsets, r
ather of an overdone way of photographing a particular subject, something like PowerPoint presentations and stock photography with happy smiling professionals gathered around a table.

Was ist denn ein Klischee für euch? Wenn ich `Klischee´ denke kommt mir nicht ein goldener Sonnenuntergang in den Sinn. Ich denke eher an eine übertriebene Weise zu fotografieren, sowas wie bei PowerPoint-Präsentationen, Fotos der Agenturen mit lächelnden Profis, die an einem runden Tisch sitzen.

Kb:
For us, a cliche is something that fulfils all our expectations. Like many of you, we have seen so many sunset-pictures that at best we say is a bored “Wow!” or “Oh!” or in blogs, we comment with an empty “nice” or the emotional bloggers write “Marvellous!!” with a big M and two exclamation marks and maybe with an additional thumbs-up and then the picture is forgotten. No more dealing with it. The cliche is the known that frees us to deal with it.

Für uns ist ein Klischee was unsere Erwartung ohne Ecken und Kanten erfüllt. Wie viele haben wir so viele Sonnenuntergangsbilder schon gesehen, dass wir bestenfalls mehr müde als wach “Ah!” und “Oh!” sagen oder wie wir hier im Blog kommentieren schnell “schön”, die Emotionaleren lassen sich noch zu “wunderbar!!” – ja, mit zwei Ausrufezeichen und oft auch Daumenhoch-Emoji – hinreißen und damit ist die Wahrnehmung des Bildes abgeschlossen. Kurzum, ein Klische ist das Bekannte, das den Betrachter von der Mühe befreit, sich damit auseinanderzusetzen. 

Klausbernd before removing the noise.
Same procedure as the first image, but less detail to demonstrate the effect.


If necessary, an easy way to soften a noisy person. 😉 

Dina:
But sunsets? Really, are you serious? It seems as though you have failed to differentiate the subject from the photographer’s style. ‘Cliche’ should be reserved for certain photographic styles, not for the subjects themselves. What do you think?

There are many cliches in maternity photography, food photography, but would anyone dare to say the entire notion of photographing pregnant women and food is itself a cliché? Noooo.

Aber Sonnenuntergänge? Das kann doch nicht dein Ernst sein? Du scheinst nicht zwischen dem Objekt und dem Stil des Fotografen zu unterscheiden. `Klischee´ sollte eine Aussage über einen bestimmten Stil sein und nicht eine über das Objekt. Was meinst du? Es gibt z.B. viele Klischees in der Mutter-Kind-Fotografie, den Bilder von Essen, aber ich habe noch keinen gehört, der sagte Mutter und Kind oder Essen zu fotografieren sei ein Klischee.

Kb:
We should not mistake the sunset with the picture of the sunset. To experience the real sunset is wholistic, it has many dimensions. You can’t reproduce that. The old ban on pictures in religions is based on this. But that more or less applies to every picture. With sunsets, it’s rather the multitude of similar pictures. It’s the same with certain conventions in photographing mother and child or food as well. I suppose some situations like sunsets at the sea shouldn’t be pictured and bereaved of their aura.

Wir sollten nicht den Fehler machen, den Sonnenuntergang mit seinem Bild zu verwechseln. Der Sonnenuntergang in der Natur ist ein gesamtlicher Eindruck, der sich der Nachbildung entzieht. Wir vermuten, dass das alte Bilderverbot der Religionen darauf beruht, dass diese Ganzheit sich jeder Abbildung widersetzt. Bei Sonnenuntergängen ist jedoch der Punkt meines Anstoßes die unerträgliche Unmenge ähnlicher Bilder. Ähnliches kann man auch bei verschiedenen Darstellungskonventionen von Mutter und Kind oder Essen sehen. Man muss doch nicht alles abbilden und ihm damit seine Aura rauben.

Dina:
Sure,  it’s been done to death, but that’s only because sunsets are truly beautiful. At least Selma is on my side now whispering that life is too short to listen to art critics who can’t appreciate simple beauty.

Natürlich, das hat man bis zum Erbrechen gemacht, aber doch weil Sonnuntergänge wirklich schön sind. Zumindest Selma ist auf meiner Seite und flüstert mir ins Ohr, dass das Leben zu kurz sei um auf Kunstkritiker zu hören, die einfach Schönes nicht genießen können.

 

After our little discussion, we say goodbye as we deserve a drink now. Cheers
Nach unserer kleinen Diskussion sagen wir “tschüss”, denn wir haben uns jetzt einen Drink verdient

Dina 🙂 and 🙂 Kausbernd

 

 

© Text and illustrations, Hanne Siebers and Klausbernd Vollmar, Cley next the Sea, 2020

 

267 thoughts

    • Dear Fraggle,
      indeed, Dina tried hard to transcend the cliche of sunsets – did she succeed?
      You are right, no two sunsets are the same but they are often VERY similar, aren’t they?
      Thanks for your kind comment. 🙂 🙂
      Keep well
      The Fab Four of Cley
      🙂 🙂 🙂 🙂

      Liked by 2 people

    • Every photograph has already been taken, every story has already been written, but those of us who strive to create try to make them our own, and put ourselves into the mix, one (wo)man’s cliché is another (wo)man’s uniqueness 🙂

      Liked by 4 people

    • Dear Fraggle,
      we see your point. But Kb und Siri think it’s a matter of numbers – how often do you see a picture that’s like these sunset pictures? If there are masses of photographs you can picture immediately then it’s a ‘nice’ exercise in technique but it has for us no artistic value.
      But, of course, you are right, what is a cliche for one person is unique for the oher. It’s a question of what you have seen before.
      Happy weekend
      The Fab Four of Cley
      🙂 🙂 🙂 🙂

      Liked by 1 person

    • That’s an interesting conversation, I hope you don’t mind me joining in.
      I personally think that sunsets and photographs of sunsets represent something significant that endures, and is shared, for a reason that repetition cannot dampen. Another photo blogger, forgive me for not remembering the name, once wrote :
      the world is supped full with photos of children blowing out the candles on their birthday cakes. You know it. I know it. And yet, the world is not suffering from a surfeit of photographs of your child blowing out the candles on his birthday cake on his third birthday. Does that make sense?
      This uniqueness in your personal experinece although so similar to a landslide of a familiar scene?
      Best wishes and hugs
      Hjerter ❤

      Liked by 2 people

    • Dear Hjerter,
      maybe we have to differentiate here: Documenting my three-year-old child blowing out the three birthday candles is documentary photography. It’s a sweet and important reminder of a situation for the parents and child as well. We see that as “private documentation” – and here the problem starts with modern media like Instagram, Facebook etc, the private and intimate moment becomes public. Maybe that has to do with a narcissist society. We think everybody has to be interested in our life.
      My memories are my memories and should stay my memories. We don’t want to share intimate moments and rob them of their magic.
      Keep well & healthy.
      Thanks for your interesting comment
      The Fab Four of Cley
      🙂 🙂 🙂 🙂

      Liked by 1 person

    • Dear Uschi and Herbert,
      we have quite often these discussions about what’s a cliche. We, our dear Master 🚶‍♂️and 🧚‍♀️ Sirifee, are fed up with these beautiful postcard-pictures especially of the sea, the Alps or some lakes in rural Germany. They are okay for calendars and travel guides where the picture is not that important. But they are not suitable for really good photography, as we see it.
      Wishing you a great weekend
      The Fab Four of Cley
      🙂 🙂 🙂 🙂

      Liked by 1 person

  1. Fab Four of Cley,
    A cliche to me is usually based on reality, like a stereotype. As it is being used here, I would say a selfie picture or people who feel that everyone is waiting for the next Instagram pix of what they’re had for breakfast, lunch and/or dinner.
    Each sunset is unique in its own way and the photographer’s technique for capturing it makes it even more so.
    Dina, your sunset here, boat and crystal, reflecting water are spectacular (or would you prefer I say ‘Marvelous!!’).
    I hope you are all staying safe and healthy. Enjoy your weekend, my friends.
    GP Cox

    Liked by 4 people

    • Dear GP Cox,
      if you look at many sunset pictures you will notice they are all quite similar. People are fascinated by the warm light that’s fading. It’s not that different from a selfie or the Instagram pictures of your breakfast. You can foresee how this picture will look like and that makes, at least for us, the picture boring. Nevertheless, thank you very much for liking Dina’s sunset picture.
      We are all well, thank you, and hope the same for you too. Wishing you a wonderful weekend
      The Fab Four of Cley
      🙂 🙂 🙂 🙂

      Liked by 1 person

    • We are not against looking at sunsets. We like this too, but we argue against pictures of sunsets. The real experience in nature and the picture of it are quite different.
      Thanks and cheers
      The Fab Four of Cley
      🙂 🙂 🙂 🙂

      Like

  2. Thank you Dina and Klausbernd,
    for your illustrated discussion with all the arguments.
    I do like the the light of the evening sun, die Abenddämmerung, while living in the city, theres only little chance to watch the sundown.
    It may be called romantic, even cliché, but it give us ideas of the astronomy as well. The world turns around the sun once a year and itself once a day.
    So, I always liked to watch sundowns at the sea and moody pictures of it. Yours are magic, indeed. I would not mind some “sunrises” as well.
    Now, enjoy your “sundowner” drink
    yours, Bernd

    Liked by 3 people

    • Dear Bernd,
      we like watching sunsets. It always amazes us that the speed of the setting sun seems to accelerate at the very end. Of course, the speed of the rotation of the earth stays constant. It’s a psychological effect of our perception, we suppose.
      A real sunset belongs to the realm of nature, a picture of a sunset belongs to the realm of pictures. In both realms, we have kind of different laws. If Klausbernd and Siri speak about cliches this can only be used for the world of pictures not for the natural world. Hegel made this clear cut between the “Naturschöne” (the natural beauty) and the “Kunstschöne” (the beauty of art) and we can see that this makes sense. We speak about two different ‘worlds’.
      Oh dear sunrises, no, no, the dear old sun rises too early for us, much to early.
      Wishing you a wonderful weekend, keep well and happy and thanks for commenting
      The Fab Four of Cley
      🙂 🙂 🙂 🙂

      Liked by 1 person

    • Thank you Fab Fours,
      for sharing your considerations and reflexions including the recollection of Hegels thoughts on beauty.
      This year, Hegels 250th birthday on August, 27th, 1770 at Stuttgart, is going to be commemorated. He died during the cholera epidemia in Berlin, 1831.
      Your discussion about sunsets reminds me of his quote:
      “Wenn die Philosophie ihr Grau in Grau malt, dann ist eine Gestalt des Lebens alt geworden, und mit Grau in Grau läßt sie sich nicht verjüngen, sondern nur erkennen; die Eule der Minerva beginnt erst mit der einbrechenden Dämmerung ihren Flug.”
      (Vorrede; Grundlinien der Philosophie des Rechts”, 1821)
      Your contributions to the readers community are inspiring.
      Yours, Bernd

      Liked by 3 people

    • Thank you VERY much, dear Bernd 🙂 🙂
      And special thanks for this Hegel-quote. Hegel made jokes about Schopenhauer that he left Berlin to escape the cholera and then Hegel died during this epidemia. Quite ironic, isn’t it?
      Keep well and wishing you a wonderful day
      The Fab Four of Cley
      🙂 🙂 🙂 🙂

      Liked by 1 person

  3. Richtig schön! 😉
    Tja, der Sonnenuntergang ist wahrscheinlich das größte Klischee überhaupt. Der warme und orangefarbene Horizont zieht Fotografen genauso an, wie der Vollmond die Werwölfe. Um nach so einem Sonnenuntergang nicht nackt und wehrlos aufzuwachen, sollte jeder Fotograf sich sich lieber auf die Qualität des Lichts, als auf den Sonnenuntergang konzentrieren. Hat doch prima geklappt. 🙂 Die abendliche Atmosphäre in den Fotos is gut festgehalten und auf dem Schiff wäre ich jetzt liebend gerne.

    Liked by 3 people

    • Guten Morgen, lieber Jürgen,
      danke für deinen fein formulierten Kommetar. Ja, Bilder vom Sonnenuntergang gehören der gleichen Kategorie an wie die Bilder vom röhrenden Hirschen oder der vollbusige Zigeunerin im Schlafzimmer. Im gewissen Sinne könnte man hier von einem Abgesang auf die Kunst reden, es ist triviale Deko, eben Kalenderbilderchen.
      Was du über das Licht schreibst, macht sofort für uns alle vier einen Sinn.
      Mit lieben Grüßen vom heute stürmischen Meer
      The Fab Four of Cley
      🙂 🙂 🙂 🙂

      Like

  4. As a photographer, I’ll side with Dina in not wanting to foreclose whole subjects just because certain ways of treating them have become clichés. The perpetual challenge is to keep coming up with new approaches that aren’t just new for the sake of new (which could be ugly or banal) but which produce a pleasing image. Of course what pleases one viewer may have no appeal for another viewer, but that’s a different subject.

    Liked by 3 people

    • Dear Steve,
      we like your suggesting of ‘de-clicheing’. We, Klausbernd and Siri as well as the other two agree that we need an entirely new look at picturing sunsets. Something that is unexpected and makes the perceiver think. Brecht had posters hanging in his theatre saying “glotzt nicht so romantisch” (goggle not so romantic), we need such advice for looking at sunset pictures. This advice has to be part of the style of the picture.
      As we are all influenced by the endless world of pictures of the media we do judge pictures very similar, we suppose.
      Thanks for your comment.
      Have a happy weekend
      The Fab Four of Cley
      🙂 🙂 🙂 🙂

      Like

  5. I agree, sunset photos and paintings often fall into that cliche category, but I’d say you’ve taken these photos well beyond that point of “Marvellous!!” with a big M and two exclamation marks, especially that first one. “Cheers!” is right…you deserve it!

    Liked by 4 people

    • Thank you very much, dear Mary 🙏🙏
      We have to admit we like Dina’s way of photographing the fading light too. But in our view, it has to go further, further away from those pictures that you see everywhere.
      Wishing you all the best. Stay well and safe
      The Fab Four of Cley
      🙂 🙂 🙂 🙂

      Liked by 1 person

  6. This is an another brilliant post, my dear friends, The Fab Four of Cley. Ah, we love cliches, even though we think we are above using or thinking of them.: Actions speak louder than words. …The grass is always greener on the other side. …
    The apple doesn’t fall far from the tree. …You can’t judge a book by its cover. …Love is blind. …Ignorance is bliss. So why do we continually seek out sunsets? The beauty is fleeting. Perhaps it reminds us of our finite existence? Of the last hurrah. Whatever reason, we are drawn to sunsets like a “moth to flame.” Love those cliches. Dina – remarkable photography and wise words. Always, always, always a joy to stop by.. Hugs from across the pond.

    Liked by 3 people

    • Dear Clanmother Rebeca,
      Cliches are loved because one doesn’t need to deal with them. One takes them for granted. That means in the world of pictures that the cliche is the easiest way to look at pictures. You look and forget, you don’t need to stay and think about it. That’s the typical way of watching pictures f.e. on Instagram.
      The fading light is a symbol of our finite existence, as you write. It’s the “memento mori” and the “carpe diem” of the Baroque. It’s like the withering flowers in the still lifes of the Dutch masters of the 17th c. But if we see those pictures too often they lose their symbolic energy and that means their transforming powers. They become at best decoration.
      Thank you so much for your kind and clever words 🙏🙏
      With Hugs, XXX and warm greetings from the cold sea
      The Fab Four of Cley
      🙂 🙂 🙂 🙂

      Liked by 1 person

    • I so enjoy our conversations. I have been thinking a great deal about mindfulness lately. We miss so much because we look for short-cuts in our thinking. I especially appreciated your thought: “But if we see those pictures too often they lose their symbolic energy and that means their transforming powers.” I agree wholeheartedly! Hugs and more hugs from a chilly Vancouver!

      Liked by 2 people

    • Dear Rebecca,
      You’re always a joy and an inspiration to read. I do like the term short-cuts in thinking 💭 🤔 something I can rely to as I’m permanently learning new shortcuts within the various computer 👩🏼‍💻 programs, subsequently transforming the actions into automation beyond thinking.

      Having read books of essays by Susan Sontag, I frequently found myself nodding vigorously in agreement and almost as often, shaking my head in disagreement. Here comes two quotes that made my head move.
      Susan Sontag does not discuss at all the techniques of photography- her essays are all about what photography is and why we do it.

      The ultimate wisdom of the photographic image is to say, ‘There is the surface. Now think – or rather feel, intuit – what is beyond it, what the reality must be like if it looks that way. ‘Photographs, which cannot themselves explain anything, are inexhaustible invitations to deduction, speculation, and fantasy… The very muteness of what is, hypothetically, comprehensible in photographs is what constitutes their attraction and provocativeness.

      Certain glories of nature, for example. have been all but abandoned to the indefatigable attentions of amateur camera buffs. The image-surfeited are likely to find sunsets corny; they now look, alas, too much like photographs. – Susan Sontag , On Photography by Susan Sontag

      It’s still very windy on the coast of Norfolk today and a lot chillier than last week so I look forward to a nice Sunday breakfast now being prepared by KB and Siri and Selma. Selma makes a wonderful Arabic coffee with Simsalabim, Siri boils the eggs to the delightful point of outmost yumminess at 4.40 minutes and Klausbernd prepares avocados, German ham and toasty bread to a point where I can smell, well, now it’s time to get out of bed!
      🤗🤗🤗🤗 from us all to the three of you. XxxX

      Liked by 2 people

    • Oh, what a wonderful breakfast – I’m coming over! Thank you for the introduction to Susan Sontag’s On Photography. I just found the book and have it now in hand to read. I am so excited about this find – I did a brief look through and found “Plato’s Cave” article. This is going to be a great read. Thank you Thank you Thank you! “To collect photographs is to collect the world.” Your photography is truly unforgettable. Hugs and much love coming to my dearest friends, The Fab Four of Cley.

      Liked by 2 people

    • Thank you very much, dear Clanmother Rebecca 🙂 🙂
      Especially in social media people are quick, they feel that there is no time for a real reflected answer, that isn’t espected. And one has always to visit many ‘friends’. The effect is that in the end people lose the ability to reflect something and express it. The media makes the message. In this case the media promotes the short cliche, actually the ‘non-message’.
      With lots of ❤ ❤ ❤ ❤ HUGS XXXX
      The Fab Four of Cley
      🙂 🙂 🙂 🙂

      Liked by 1 person

    • There seems to be a tendency to value our contributions to any conversation by the likes and views. I think it is a way of validation. This would be a very interesting research project to look into, but I confess that I don’t even know how analytics work – never look at them. Yikes. What I most enjoy and savour is the conversations – and we have had marvelous ones over the years!!!

      Liked by 2 people

    • Dear Rebecca,
      if one publishes a post one wants be to be read otherwise it’s wrong to publish. If one wants to be read usually one wants that the text is liked. A published text is a service for the public and the public is telling the writer how this text is received. That’s done in the blogosphere with the help of LIKES. The LIKES are an important information for the author which posts are successful and which aren’t. Seeing it the other way round, few Likes are a signal that there is something wrong with the writing and/or the pictures. The producer of a blog has to serve the public and public tells her or him if they like the service. Every professional writer or photographer has to learn first of all to see something they want to publish with the eyes of the receiver. And in this respect the Likes are a great help, a perfect feedback.
      With lots of love ❤ ❤ ❤ ❤
      The Fab Four of Cley
      🙂 🙂 🙂 🙂

      Liked by 1 person

    • You have made excellent points and have given me much to think on, Klausbernd!!! Many many thanks for sharing these insights for they have given me a greater understanding of the blogging process. Have a wonderful day, my dear friend. Sunshine in Vancouver- life is so good!🤗🤗🤗

      Liked by 1 person

    • Dear Clanmother Rebecca,
      here it’s sunny and rather hot as well. I was just walking through the village to go shopping while Dina was mowing the lawn she very much like.
      Great that you like my ideas about blogging. There are quite some bloggers who pretend not to be interested in Likes. From my point of view, they haven’t understood what blogging is about and how important this feedback is for improving.
      With big hugs from the little village next to the big sea to Vancouver
      Klausbernd and the rest of the gang
      XXXXXXX

      Liked by 1 person

    • I love your village! Wish I was there. I have learned a great deal from our conversations over the years. I value my likes because I know that someone was pleased with the post and wanted to connect. I agree wholeheartedly with you that feedback is vital. What I especially appreciated about your thought was the thought that a blog has to serve the public – that bloggers have a responsibility, that it is not a selfish act, but an act that adds to the wider conversation. And that we must continue to improve. These are wonderful thoughts to begin my day. Take care, my dear friends, the Fab Four of Cley.

      Liked by 1 person

    • Dear Rebecca,
      for me blogging has a pedagogic aspect too. We communicate and do our best to make something clear. We try to understand a topic and our partners we communicate to.
      Of course, we are aware that there are bloggers who just give a Like because they want to get a Like from you as well. They are like these folks commenting just “wonderful”, “beautiful” etc. saying nothing except looking at me.
      Have a wonderful day, our dear friend.
      Hugs & XXXX
      The Fab Four of Cley
      🙂 🙂 🙂 🙂

      Liked by 1 person

    • Sunshine out in Vancouver. There is a feeling of summer is coming. I remember the first time I met the Fab Four of Cley – it must be at least 8 years ago. What I found was a conversation, an ongoing dialogue, a place to learn, celebrate and connect. You continue to offer these gifts to all who come for a visit. Many many thanks for all those wonderful conversations. Looking forward to more that are awaiting our arrival. By the way, I am going to take on Faust in the coming months. Always an adventure.

      Liked by 1 person

    • Dear Clanmother, good morning,
      what a beautiful morning again, sunshine and warm.
      At the beginning of my twenties, I had a teacher, she was in her nineties and had been a student of C.G. Jung. To be accepted as her student I had to learn by heart the first part of Faust. Since that time Faust accompanies me. I read it at least more than 20times again. Nowadays I call it the drama of the German or European intellectual.
      Goethe uses perfectly the rhythm of the language.
      Have fun reading it!
      With love ❤ hugs and xxxx for our dear friend
      The Fab Four of Cley
      🙂 🙂 🙂 🙂

      Liked by 1 person

    • Dear Rebecca,
      that’s true, Goethe wrote and changed “Faust” during most of his life. Published are three versions, the oldest is called “Ur-Faust”. The version that is most read and performed on stage is “Faust I”. The second part of “Faust I” is called “Faust II” that is full of classic mythology. And in the end, the female principle, Gretchen the Anima, is saving Faust.
      I am sure you will like reading “Faust”. By the way, most Germans know this or that line of “Faust” by heard.
      Big hugs from the sunny sea
      The Fab Four of Cley
      🙂 🙂 🙂 🙂

      Liked by 2 people

    • Our dear friend Mary,
      in a way, Dina tried to overcome the cliche of a sunset picture with a sunset picture. That reminds us of a book we just finished. In Stephen King’s “The Institute” the author ironises the genre he is using without a break in the flow of the story. It’s a matter of style.
      Thank you very much for commenting.
      Wishing a wonderful weekend to a wonderful person
      The Fab Four of Cley
      🙂 🙂 🙂 🙂

      Liked by 1 person

    • You post made me re-ponder that the world we live in has become a place of cliché in everything. As you know, I deal with the 17th century France. While reading archives I see far more creativity & freedom of speech & freedom of artistic expression! The present reality if a sort of “Behind the Mirror” in its not the best way! I wish you more anti-cliché sunset photos! 🙂
      Greetings from cold & a bit snowy Moscow! 🙂 🙂 🙂 🙂

      Liked by 3 people

    • Dear Maria,
      you made an important point, seeing it on the level of our western society. With its tendency to populismus the cliche is ruling. I suppose, this has to do with integration. F.e. if we see the rainbow as a symbol for emotional support for keyworkers and NHS it is a success, you see it everywhere and immediately it’s taken over by politics and sponsort even more. The government starts using the cliche of being nice using this ‘lovely’ symbol to distract from its failures. And now the symbol has lost its magic or, like Walter Benjamin would say, its aura. It has become a dead cliche.
      That’s maybe a crazy idea of mine. I suppose mass society means cliches. Our society is – at least partly – greedy, we want more, big numbers. Cliches are serving easiest a mass society. We are aware of being elitist to judge the cliche negativ. But we could see it the other way round, to avoid cliches is a political decision on the level of style – we find necessary.
      I am very sorry not knowing much about 17th c. France. I notice something similar comparing our society with the high middle ages I know much better. There was much more freedom of every kind of expression as we have today.
      We send you some sun and a bit of the warm wind we are having right now to wintry Moscow. Keep well
      Klausbernd 🙂 and the rest of
      The Fab Four of Cley
      🙂 🙂 🙂 🙂

      Liked by 2 people

    • !!!!!!!!! I do agree with you, dear Klaus-confederate! In general, the Christian mentality & the society as the whole before 1789 is a perfect model for comprehending better what freedom & individuality must be. Thank you very much for your opinion. Suddenly it made me understand why, as a designer who denies any cliché, I face more obstacles on my way…But I don’t give up. Obstacles exist to be overcome. Keep well in your magic land!
      Best wishes,
      Maria 🙂 🙂 🙂 🙂

      Liked by 2 people

    • Thank you VERY much, my dear friend 🙂 🙂
      In a way one could say if there are no obstacles then it’s a cliche 😉
      I suppose, like Marcuse, that our societies are getting more and more one-dimensional.
      With lots of love from the little village next to the big sea
      The Fab Four of Cley
      🙂 🙂 🙂 🙂

      Liked by 1 person

  7. Oh, dear. You’d best not look at my Cornwall blog. I posted some sunset skies just the other night! They may be clichés, but that should not stop us from photographing them and sharing the beauty. Are we also to stop photographing beaches and boats and country cottages then? I love your interesting debate, but I’m on Diana’s side and with her talents I say bring on the sunsets!

    Liked by 4 people

    • Good afternoon, dear Jude,
      well, quite often beaches are photographed similarily and “the romantic country cottage” as well. If there are a lot of pictures around of sunsets, beaches and country cottages f.e. why pollute the net with similar pictures of the same object? If one wants to, one needs a new approach, the photographer has to break the cliche.
      Thank you very much for commenting.
      With love from the small village next to the big sea
      The Fab Four of Cley
      🙂 🙂 🙂 🙂

      Liked by 1 person

  8. Für die einen sind Sonnenuntergänge klischeehaft, für andere wiederum wunderschön. Jedem so, wie es gefällt. Ich schließe Blogposts über meine Ausflüge und Erlebnisse in der Natur gerne mit einem Bild von einem Sonnenuntergang ab. Für mich ist das völlig natürlich, das Ende eines interessanten und schönen Tages zu zeigen. 😉
    Alles Liebe!

    Liked by 3 people

    • Wir müssen das noch einmal deutlich machen, wir schreiben hier NICHT über Sonnenuntergänge, sondern über Bilder von Sonnenuntergängen. Die Unterscheidung von Objekt und dem Bild des Objektes scheint uns wesentlich in der Fotografie wie in jeder Kunst. Das Naturschöne und das Kunstschöne sind zwei völlig unterschiedliche Welten, was schon die deutschen Aufklärer wie Hegel betonten. Es geht hier also um das Bild und dessen Rezeption.
      Habe ganz herzlichen Dank fürs Kommentieren.
      Mit lieben Grüßen von heute stürmischen Meer
      The Fab Four of Cley
      🙂 🙂 🙂 🙂

      Like

    • Ich seh’ schon, ich bin zu ungebildet für die höheren geistigen Sphären, in denen ihr euch bewegt. Ich verabschiede mich hiermit von euch und eurem Blog, und wünsche euch für die Zukunft alles Gute.

      Liked by 1 person

    • P.S.
      Hier noch eine nette Anmerkung zum Sonnenuntergang von Heinrich Heine (Siri zitiert ihn auswendig und übernimmt keine Garantie, das er exakt wiedergegeben wird von ihr)

      Ein Fräulein stand am Meere
      Es seufzte lang und bang
      Es rürte sie so sehre der Sonnenuntergang

      Mein Fräulein sein sie munter
      Es ist ein altes Stück
      da vorne geht sie unter
      von hinten kehrt sie zurück

      Like

    • Dina und Selma baten mich, Klausbernd, nochmals auf unsere Kommunikation zurückzukommen. Irgendwie scheinst du da etwas in unserem Kommentar falsch verstanden zu haben. Es geht uns hier keineswegs “um höhere geistige Sphären”. Jeder schreibt hier auf der Ebene, die ihm gefällt und auf der er sich ausdrücken möchte und wir sind voll der Überzeugung, dass jede Ebene ihre Berechtigung hat. Allerdings lieben besonders Siri und ich kontroverse Themen, die wir auch kontrovers kommentieren, da, wie wir finden, dies für so etwas hilft, was wir Wahrheitsfindung nennen würden. Auf jeden Fall bekommen so alle Seiten neue Ideen uns Anregungen.
      Das zur Erklärung
      Klausbernd 🙂

      Liked by 2 people

    • Danke für deine Erklärung. Du hast recht, und es tut mir leid, ich muss vorhin wohl etwas in den falschen Hals bekommen haben. Bin schon manchmal eine alte und etwas giftige Zicke. 😉
      Ich werde sogleich euren Blog aufs Neue abonnieren.
      Vielen Dank, liebe Dina, für deinen Besuch bei mir. Ich habe mich sehr darüber gefreut.

      Liked by 3 people

  9. Apparently the word cliché comes from the sound a printers press makes, as in many copies. However, many copies also means it appeals, which is not necessarily a bad thing. It is beautiful. Appealing to the masses does not denigrate the image which of course is why you posted for which I thank you.

    Liked by 4 people

    • I have not heard that origin of the word, but find it fascinating – particularity as I spent countless hours in pressrooms of all sizes during my career and never again will do so without thinking …Clich’e clich’e cliche’e! Oh, and love the discussion, and sunsets! M 🙂

      Liked by 3 people

    • Dear Bella,
      interesting, we didn’t know that the word ‘cliche’ is onomatopoetic. Interesting. That a picture appeals to many doesn’t say anything about the picture’s quality. We have a saying in Germany: ‘Millions of flies eat shit that doesn’t mean that shit is good.’ Well … The deeper question of this all is what is quality, how can we determine quality in art. Klausbernd’s sister is working for the leading German museum for modern art (Museum Ludwig/Köln) She expects from an artefact that it opens up her eyes or mind for a new experience, to see something in a new way. For her, and that’s her criteria for buying art, art is only art if it has this pedagogical function, teaching you to see the world different from before.
      Thank you very much for commenting 🙏🙏
      With lots of love from the rough sea – we have quite a wind
      The Fab Four of Cley
      🙂 🙂 🙂 🙂

      Liked by 1 person

    • Dear Mr Schulze,
      funny, our Master’s uncle’s name was Schulze. He was a producer and film director in Germany.
      We will not use our printers anymore without thinking cliche, as well.
      Thanks for commenting
      The Fab Four of Cley
      🙂 🙂 🙂 🙂

      Liked by 1 person

    • Thank you very much for your comment 🙂 🙂
      Great that you enjoyed our post!
      We wish you a happy weekend, stay well and safe
      The Fab Four of Cley
      🙂 🙂 🙂 🙂

      Like

  10. Well, I have never seen a sunset photo like the last one in this blog. The water, the sharpness of the darkened land, the clouds and the definition in the suns rays all seem like a fresh view. It’s like hearing a new musician singing in a tired old genre who surprises you by delivering something fresh amidst the familiarity.

    Liked by 3 people

    • Wow, what a well-formulated commentary. We are really impressed and happy. Your music metaphor describes exactly what Dina wanted to say with her picture. We couldn’t have said that in a better way. Dina’s sunset photograph shows a way to overcome a cliche, isn’t it?!
      Thank you VERY much 🙂 🙂
      We wish you a great weekend
      The Fab Four of Cley
      🙂 🙂 🙂 🙂

      Liked by 2 people

    • Good afternoon, dear Janet,
      thank you so much for liking Dina’s photography 🙏🙏
      Wishing you all the best and a happy weekend
      The Fab Four of Cley
      🙂 🙂 🙂 🙂

      Liked by 2 people

  11. Ok you two! This is an esoteric discussion about sunsets and photos thereof. I liked these photos very much and since I was not there to see them in real life the photos were a good second best.😊

    Liked by 3 people

    • Dear Anne,
      it’s in a way a discussion of how we see art and how we produce it. We all four don’t see these pictures of the sunset as a document. It’s rather playing with light and colours.
      Thank you very much for commenting 🙂 🙂
      A happy weekend wishing you
      The Fab Four of Cley
      🙂 🙂 🙂 🙂

      Liked by 2 people

  12. I generally find sunset pictures (photos and paintings) boring. Mainly because there are so many of them and most do not have a uniqueness to them that triggers in me whatever that hormone is that give me an “aha moment” and cause me to continue to examine the picture. But that’s just me. It seems that discussing whether or not sunset pictures are cliche is similar to discussing what is art. The answers are subjective and the discussions should include lots of wine or beer, or … .

    Liked by 5 people

    • Dear David,
      you express exactly what Klausbernd and Siri are thinking. But we don’t think that art is that subjective, not at all. There is the reception theory describing what we see as art and why. That has to do with our expectations and with the surroundings in which the artefact is perceived f.e. Furthermore art needs a message etc. We think it makes sense to think about art as about cliches because that helps to produce ‘better’ pictures and to overcome cliches.
      Thank you VERY much for your commentary 🙂 🙂
      Wishing you a great weekend
      The Fab Four of Cley
      🙂 🙂 🙂 🙂

      Liked by 2 people

  13. Even if you took a thousand photos one for each sunset you experience, no picture would be the same, especially when you add your personal touch with an editing program. There is no such thing as cliche in Dina’s pictures. They are all breathtakingly beautiful.

    Liked by 3 people

    • Good afternoon, dear Peter,
      most of the pictures of sunsets are similar. They show what we expect. Dina tried to do it differently by concentrating on the colour temperature of the different lights. It’s not the solution but a way to overcome cliches in pictures and we will see where it will lead to.
      We wishing you a great time.
      Thanks and cheers
      The Fab Four of Cley
      🙂 🙂 🙂 🙂

      Liked by 2 people

    • Dear Gwendoline,
      don’t worry, we see our constant discussions as a kind of game helping us to understand what we are doing. It’s playing with ideas, maybe a little bit like in Hesse’s “Glasbead Game”. This helps our dear Master to write better and our dear Dina producing better pictures and last not least it is playing together and learning from each other.
      Thank you very much for your comment and the idea to think about the rainbow and how it’s used in a political way.
      Wishing you all the best
      The Fab Four of Cley
      🙂 🙂 🙂 🙂

      Liked by 2 people

  14. I have seen so many clichés of sunset or whatever , where my photography soul thinks like … this is not the real thing….as a professional photographer I immediately recognize what has been done in PS to alter an image and most often it doesn’t present the real nature….it appears to be unreal and fake. Yet having said , there is nothing wrong using LR to make some corrections of lighting or bringing out a bit of shadows , I use this all the time . I believe in my experience it’s all about moderation. Thank you for sharing this post and your amazing images.

    Liked by 3 people

    • Dear Cornelia,
      Klausbernd and Siri think a picture of something doesn’t have to be realistic like you don’t spoil a good story with truth as a writer. The nature and a picture belong to two different worlds. We expect that a photographer produces pictures by using PD or LR or whatsoever like a painter uses brushes. The art is the clever manipulation of the material the object provides. For us, the object provides form and colour and they are given to play with it. Well, that’s, of course, only true if you don’t want to document.
      We absolutely agree with you, post-production has either to be moderate or you use it like Braque and Picasso did during their cubist period. You go for the abstract and pure graphics.
      Wishing you a great time. Keep well and safe
      The Fab Four of Cley
      🙂 🙂 🙂 🙂

      Liked by 1 person

    • Thanks a lot, dear Ute. Oh dear, we don’t know what to answer to that. Actually, we said everything we can say against the pictures of sunsets. Well, we don’t like pictures of sunsets and that hasn’t changed during answering the comments. Now we understand better why we don’t like pictures of sunsets. But we suppose, we also can understand why you like pictures of sunsets.
      Thank you very much. We find it great that you stand for it that you are a lover of sunset pictures.
      Have an easy weekend
      The Fab Four of Cley
      🙂 🙂 🙂 🙂

      Liked by 2 people

  15. Almost missed this, and I would have been sorry. Not to miss your humorous debate- I’m probably one of your emotional bloggers 🙂 🙂 But there’s nothing wrong with captivating beauty.

    Liked by 3 people

    • Hi, dear Jo,
      to like sunsets or not to like sunsets, that is the question 😉 😉
      You got it, we can only stand debates that are humorous.
      Thanks for your comment 🙂 🙂
      All the best
      The Fab Four of Cley
      🙂 🙂 🙂 🙂

      Liked by 1 person

  16. I especially like the first photo and most of all your discussion. When used sparingly, cliches are not always bad. There is something comforting about the “they lived happily ever after” plot, even though it’s predictable.
    It’s fair, if cliched, to say that this discussion is “just the tip of the iceberg” when it comes to cliches. When I practice writing, I want to “avoid them like the plague,” but “we’ll cross that bridge when we come to it.” 🙂

    Thank you for introducing the Luminance slider to reduce noise and a painterly effect. I’m sure it has a stunning effect on portraits as well and I’ll try it out this weekend.
    Best wishes to you all from London,
    Sarah

    Liked by 3 people

    • Dear Sarah,
      that’s very interesting what you write about using cliches. We suppose, first of all, it’s important that one knows that one is using a cliche. You can, but that’s not easy, use cliches to criticise the use of cliches. We like this idea. In a way the “they lived happily ever after” with its endless repetition is something like this. Everyone knows this phrase being a cliche and everyone smiles when it comes like expected. It’s like “Once upon a time” a marker showing you that you are in the fairytale world now and that this kind of fairytale-naivety produced this cliche. These cliches are elements of the style, they are integrated.
      All the best, have a great weekend
      The Fab Four of Cley
      🙂 🙂 🙂 🙂

      Liked by 1 person

  17. My dear friends,
    What a pity I couldn’t join you on your outing to beautiful Blakeney. It’s good to see Juno in the water. Most times I have seen the boat on land so I can fully understand Dina’s wish to take photos.
    Said that, this is a discussion close to my heart. I’m not a photographer and you know I don’t like Instagram, in fact, I think of Instagram as the last refuge of that much-maligned photographic cliché: the sunset shot. I recall talking to a student taking a beginning photography class in which rule No. 1 was: no sunset pictures.
    “Wow! Another sunset! Who’d have thought?” Although the impulse to snap a sunset is understandable—it is probably the loveliest thing one sees all day unless you are willing to get up very early for the sunrise.
    Kram
    Annalena x

    Liked by 2 people

    • Hello Annalena, hello my dear Fab Four,
      nice to meet you here, sorry our planned visit to Stockholm had to be cancelled. We’re still locked away in Tromsø and are now making plans to stay here over the summer and return to Weimar for the next term.
      I recently (had to) read Paul Fussell’s “The Great War and Modern Memory”. Clearly, the chroniclers of World War I were especially drawn to sunsets, in part because they broke up the monotony of the trenches, resembled a more beautiful version of artillery fire, and captured something about life’s evanescence. experience of Watching a sunset is a wonderful experience. I personally love sitting on a beach as the scene unfolds on a grand scale, loud with colour and radiance. I get a shivery feeling of time passing as I sip my wine, almost like death draws just a bit nearer. Sunset pictures, though, have a tendency to reduce and tame that sublimity, but that’s my personal opinion. I love seeing Blakeney again, so beautifully captured by Dina.
      I trust you are all well, here and there, keep safe and have a good weekend.
      Stor klem
      Per Magnus

      Liked by 1 person

    • Dear Annalena,
      as one of my editors said, “Instagram is the end of photography, the dark end”. We all four absolutely agree that Instagram is celebrating the cliches. Therefore editors of quality magazines and books don’t look at Instagram when looking for photographers. But, of course, Instagram is a medium where nobody wants really to see a picture, therefore a cliche will do. The aim there is getting followers like ‘friends’ on Facebook. In such a medium any other pictures besides cliches would be wrong.
      Blakeney is always beautiful and especially at high floods with calm water. The next time you are here, we will go at high tide.
      KRAM
      ❤ ❤ ❤ ❤
      The Fab Four of Cley
      🙂 🙂 🙂 🙂

      Like

    • Dear Per Magnus,
      interesting what you are writing about the experience of the trenches. Although we don’t know Paul Fussell’s book we can immediately see how seeing a sunset in this situation means something special. But the fading light is a symbol of death as well. Anyway, that is the real sunset and there is another cup of tea, the picture of a sunset.
      We should all meet here, you, Annalena and us, and go looking at sunsets at the different beaches here.
      With lots of love
      STOR KLEM
      ❤ ❤ ❤ ❤
      The Fab Four of Cley
      🙂 🙂 🙂 🙂

      Liked by 1 person

  18. Me again, I just can’t resist as I have many notes on the subject cliché, please allow me to quote Umberto Eco who once wrote, ‘Two clichés make us laugh but a hundred clichés move us because we sense dimly that the clichés are talking among themselves, celebrating a reunion.’

    Robert Macfarlane in Original Copy: Plagiarism and Originality in Nineteenth-Century Literature (2007) about cliches: It comes from the early nineteenth-century French term for a stereotype block, presumably due to the noise the blocks made whilst printing (clicher is a variant of the verb cliquer, to click). It existed in this literal meaning until the 1890s: the OED offers Andrew Lang, writing in Longwood’s Magazine in 1892, as providing the first usage of cliché as a metaphor meaning ‘A stereotyped expression, a commonplace phrase’. The coinage stuck, and the word cliché itself became a cliché, reproduced many times over to designate something reproduced many times over. (p. 160)

    In a footnote, Macfarlane also explains the origin of ‘stereotype’:
    It began as an eighteenth-century noun meaning ‘A method of replicating a relief printing surface’, but by 1850 had been abstracted to signify ‘A thing continued or constantly repeated without change, esp. a phrase or formula, etc.; stereotyped diction or usage’ (OED). (p. 160)

    Thanks for giving me this space. It’s a good feeling when taking notes pays off. 😉

    Wishing you many glorious sunsets on the beaches in North Norfolk this summer, with or without a camera.
    Kram
    Annalena x

    Liked by 2 people

    • Thank you very much, dear Annalena, and special thanks for the Umberto Eco quote 🙂 🙂 We were talking about this quote, what it really means. Our clever Siri thinks that if you use many stereotypes or cliches they start to ironize each other. That’s driving out the devil with the Beelzebub.
      Thanks for your findings concerning stereotypes!
      LOVE
      The Fab Four of Cley
      🙂 🙂 🙂 🙂

      Like

    • Good afternoon, dear Eddie,
      great that you like Dina’s photography. But that is the one and only picture of a sunset on our blog.
      Wishing you all te best. Keep well and happy
      The Fab Four of Cley
      🙂 🙂 🙂 🙂

      Liked by 2 people

  19. Interesting conversation. I can see both sides of it. When I was younger, I used to be suspicious of beauty. I think being a woman has something to do with it. Beauty felt so confining, so limiting. Now that I am older, it doesn’t seem that way. Instead beauty feels like a consolation, and during this time of the coronavirus, we need all the consolation we can get.

    Liked by 3 people

    • Are you in a camera club, Khürt? I am and in our club sunsets are not highly valued, especially not in inter competitions and whatever. But what would we do without the lovely light at the golden hours for landscape photography… And when is a cliche not a cliche? Even stereotypes and cliches carry complexities and nuances. Just like sunsets, then, every sunset photograph is different.

      Liked by 1 person

    • I’m a member of thr princeton photography club but membership is declining. I do not think it is a welcoming group for noice photographers. The group places too much emphasis on exhibitions, critiques and guest presentations.

      If we only made art for art critics the museums would be empty.

      Liked by 1 person

    • The members are declining in my local club to. It would be great to have younger people joining. I enjoy being part of the society and have benefited a lot from sharing and seeing a new way or finding a new approach since I joined almost two years ago. You’re right about the exhibitions, competitions and critiques, there’s a trap with the expectations.

      Now, this made me smile:
      ‘If we only made art for art critics the museums would be empty.” 😊

      Liked by 1 person

    • You are not the cliche but maybe your pictures 😉
      Why more sunset pictures? Aren’t there enough around already? The question is what is unexpected and new in your pictures of the sunset and what’s the new message.
      Thanks for commenting.
      Wishing you all the best
      The Fab Four of Cley
      🙂 🙂 🙂 🙂

      Like

    • Sometimes one photographs a thing for personal documentation. As a way of saying, “I was here and witnessed this on this day at this time with these people (or maybe along)”. I have many photos that are not art but purely documentary. We keep them on our phones to as “memory”; to remind us of the feeling of that moment; the smell of the air, the sounds; our own feelngs inside. And perhaps we share them with family and a small group of close friends. Sometimes.

      Liked by 3 people

    • Of course, documentary photos are different. If they are personal documentation they are not for publishing. This memory is highly subjective and totally different from pictures we publish. In case we publish it can be documention too but then we would exspect that the object is of general interest. If it’s art, well, lot it said here about it. The picture has to be reflected within the history of pictures.
      Thanks and cheers
      The Fab Four of Cley
      🙂 🙂 🙂 🙂

      Liked by 2 people

  20. It’s fine to tell us about how to get the effect with LR and PS but first of all you have to have the brilliant image! And that’s what you have here, my friend. My images fall far short of yours as my eyes no longer have the focus they had when I was younger and by the time I’ve adjusted for the fact that I tend to lean to one side when photographing and that I invariably move the camera a fraction when I take the picture my original idea has all but gone. Not to worry, I have the pleasure of looking at your lovely imges.

    Liked by 3 people

    • Good morning, dear Mari,
      we are sad to read about your problems photographing. We hope that you can enjoy seeing without photographing.
      You make an important point, first of all, you need a special image for a special picture. Even with the most sophisticated post-production, you can’t transform a boring picture into a brilliant one.
      Thank you for your comment 🙂 🙂
      Keep well
      The Fab Four of Cley
      🙂 🙂 🙂 🙂

      Liked by 1 person

  21. the Luminance tip is actually brilliant, thank you so much for sharing, Dina and Klaus 🙂 I had to try it immediately, of course 😀 I was wondering, do you bring back some of the detail after removing the noise?
    as for sunsets, there is no such thing as a cliche in photography and creative self-expression in general, imho 🙂 as long as it is meaningful to you, captures a memory and brings you happiness, then there is no dilemma 🙂 the sunset you’ve captured is absolutely beautiful, that boat silhouette is magical… and I always love love love reading about you guys sharing the hobby of photography together… so precious 🙂 hope you are having a lovely weekend!!

    Liked by 4 people

    • Dear Alexandra,
      Dina will answer your question about detail and noise removing.
      What we haven’t touched in the comments yet is the question `why do we take a photograph?´ Do we want to produce art or at least a picture we want to present a wider public or do we like to document something for ourselves? If a picture is presented to the public like on a blog it either has to document something special that’s new for the receivers or as art it stands in the history of pictures and has to present something unexpected. There was an early structuralist, Mukarovsky, thinking about what we receive as art and what we receive as kitsch. His answer, fulfilling the expectations of the receiver is kitsch and an acceptable deviation from the expectations is art. For me, that makes sense.
      Thank you so much for liking Dina’s pictures. You are right, we discuss a lot about photography, seeing and pictures in the garden, at the breakfast table and in the car. We love it!
      All the best to you. Have a wonderful week to come
      Love
      The Fab Four of Cley
      🙂 🙂 🙂 🙂

      Liked by 2 people

    • Mea culpa, mea maxima culpa that I missed this lovely comment, Alexandra.
      Yes, bringing back the detail to about 50% is fine, less makes it even more blurred, if you want the effect.
      Do you know the tutorials von Unmesh Dinda? He takes it a lot further in this video, but your photography is perfect and dreamlike as it is. Actually, your painterly feel is sublime. ❤ 🙂

      Thank you so much for visiting and commenting.

      Liked by 3 people

    • No worries 🙂 I really appreciate you took the time to reply, I will check out the video you recommend!! I try to do most of the work in camera and have only basic PS skills, which sometimes is a big disadvantage… Always love learning new things, and absolutely love your photography and story telling, thank you for the inspiration!!

      Liked by 3 people

  22. Dear Klausbernd,
    In one of your answers to Fraggle you say “Kb und Siri think it’s a matter of numbers”. What would the number be for something to become a cliche?
    Best regards,
    Pit

    Liked by 3 people

    • Good morning, dear Pit,
      that’s quite a question to answer, oh dear!
      Let’s make it concrete. Here on our blog, a picture is presented. A certain group of people, our followers, look at it. If more than half of the visitors’ expectations are fulfilled I would call the picture kitsch or you can say a stereotype. The expectations of the visitors are shaped by other blogs f.e., what they saw there. Concerning exact numbers, we just follow our feelings, but we are sure if the expectations of more than 50% of the visitors are fulfilled we call it kitsch. If we want to play very elitist than we would call an aesthetical object kitsch when it fulfils 20% of the expectation of the receivers. And we go populistic we want the picture fulfilling 95% of the expectations of its receives.
      That’s my theory.
      +E/-E > K, if E >NE
      that would be my mathematical formula (+E fulfilled expectations, -E not expected, K kitsch)
      Anyway, what do you think about it?
      Wishing you a great Sunday – here it’s quite windy still
      Klausbernd 🙂 and the rest of the gang

      Liked by 1 person

  23. 🙂 Sonnenuntergänge sind der schönste Kitsch überhaupt!
    Also bitte mehr davon!
    Habt ein schönes Wochenende und genießt Eure Drinks!
    Liebe Grüße aus dem total verregneten Wien,
    Claudia 🙂

    Liked by 3 people

    • Hi,
      das ist etwas dran, der meiste Kitsch ist schön oder im Englischen würden wir sagen ‘nice’.
      Aber hallo, das wird hier ein sonnenuntergangsfreier Blog!
      Mit lieben Grüßen vom windigen Meer
      The Fab Four of Cley
      🙂 🙂 🙂 🙂

      Liked by 1 person

  24. Good debate over a tricky subject. The point about cliche being a matter of style is compelling. The sun itself appears more dramatic here and more fiery than I typically see in sunset photographs. The choosing of the other elements–the ship, the dock, the person in that posture– is intriguing, too. I appreciate what is unique and what’s complex. And I hope all of you are wonderfully well.

    Liked by 3 people

    • Thank you very much. Style is a tricky subject to discuss but nevertheless, it helps to reflect the style, like thinking about kitsch, to produce more interesting pictures.
      We really like that you analyse the individual elements of the picture and compare it with the usual presentations. We immediately see then that Hanne’s picture is far from being kitsch. To look at what elements are unique in this picture is an eyeopener. Thank you 🙂
      Thank you, we are all well and we hope the same from you.
      Keep safe
      The Fab Four of Cley
      🙂 🙂 🙂 🙂

      Like

  25. A beautiful sunset is a beauty well worth admiring in reality or photography. I think there’s a certain number of scenes or locations that are ‘photographed (at sunset) to death’ They don’t do anything for me. But to see a landscape or silhouette and sky colour that one has never seen before and moves one to say Gorgeous, Marvellous or whatever, is well worth capturing.

    After many years blogging one feels as though there are no new words to type in a blog comment, so one feels the only thing to say is the cliche “marvellous!!!” I know I’m starting to run out of words in my limited vocabulary.

    I love the last shot in this post, partly for its composition in having the sun to one side and the silhouette to the other, but also its lovely cloud and sky colour. It was well worth the trip to the sea to capture it or even, just stand and watch Mother Nature ‘close her eyes for the day’.

    Liked by 3 people

    • Dear Vicki
      you comment expresses like we feel and think as well. And don’t we all know that we are writing comments using cliches because it’s quickly done?
      Thank you very much for liking Dina’s sunset pictures. Blakeney, our next village, is ideal to watch the typical sunsets at the sea – and maybe photograph them.
      We hope you are well. Keep safe
      The Fab Four of Cley
      🙂 🙂 🙂 🙂

      Liked by 1 person

    • Thanks, dear Margaret.
      We suppose as long as we blog we will discuss cliches – and that’s good so. Otherwise, Dina wouldn’t produce ‘fresh and lovely photos’.
      Wishing you an easy week to come
      The Fab Four of Cley
      🙂 🙂 🙂 🙂

      Liked by 1 person

  26. I almost missed this one. I’m glad I got it. What a wonderful debate. Last year I was talking with a noted and very respected photographer who said “sunsets are so last year.“ In another comment in another blog I said that I agree with her 95% of the time. The other 5%? Well, that’s where I see an opportunity to lift it above the cliché and create a picture rather than a photograph. Bruce Percy made that distinction a month or two ago and I wholeheartedly agree. A photograph is a representation of what was there: objective reality. A picture is a representation of what is in the artist’s mind: subjective reality. See my blog entries of 22, 23, and 24 May for examples. All three pictures were of the same post-sunset sky. They were all taken with the same two minute period.

    There’s another viewpoint on clichés as well: if you’re going to do a cliché, do it with full awareness of what you are doing and make it a better cliché. Make it stand out above all of the clichés. Then what is it? There’s a discussion!

    Offered with love from California. Do well, my friends.

    PS — Dina might enjoy playing with minus Clarity settings. Doing that selectively on various parts of the image can lead to some interesting results.

    Liked by 2 people

    • Apologies for my late response, Michael. Your thoughts are immensely inspiring and kept me busy! 🙂 Your pictures are simply stunning.
      “There’s another viewpoint on clichés as well: if you’re going to do a cliché, do it with full awareness of what you are doing and make it a better cliché. Make it stand out above all of the clichés. Then what is it? There’s a discussion!” – Indeed, bravo. 🙂 I’m heavily influenced by a good friend who’s a digital artist, always creating the most amazing and colourful artistic pictures rather than presenting the objective reality. You have made me acutely aware of the importance of making the distinction between the objective and subjective reality before the editing starts and play it pianissimo indicating ⇒ beautifully balanced and controlled rather than fortissimo. I’m very much in favour of landscapes with a soft, painterly touch and I will happily try minus clarity selectively on various part on some images. Thank you.

      When I first looked up Bruce Percy, his Flickr account came up. The images on Flickr are very much different from his recent approach, which I found quite inspiring. His books are all sold out so I’ll be on the lookout for second hands. I think I will contact him for some private mentoring (do you offer to tutor like he does, as well?) The tonal components that you both mention; is this understanding and mastering levels and curves?

      Deeply grateful for your offerings,
      with sunny greetings from the coast
      Dina

      Liked by 3 people

    • Thank you very much. Your comments are always interesting. My viewpoint is that I simply do what I like to do and if other people like it, so much the better. But if I try to do something just to please others, it’s going to end up looking exactly as it is: a compromise.

      Bruce has a series of e-books on his website.

      https://www.brucepercy.co.uk/tutorials

      He also is doing online classes.

      https://www.brucepercy.co.uk/on-line-classes

      I have all the e-books and I am doing the digital dark room mini series. The next one is in just a few hours. They are also available as recordings. Not only is he a sensitive artist, he is an excellent communicator and he really wants to help his students learn.

      Do I offer tutorials? No, I don’t. But I’m happy to answer questions.

      Stay well. Best wishes to the Fab Four.

      Michael

      Liked by 2 people

    • Thank you again, Michael, also for your kind offer to answer questions.
      I hope you enjoyed the digital darkroom with Bruce Percy today. I’m delighted to have found some material on Youtube showcasing his minimalistic landscapes. Especially Bruce Percy – “On Landscape Meeting of Minds Conference 2016” is awesome, some of the best pictures I have ever seen. WOW.
      AMAGA. AMAGA again. You know the feeling when you just have seen something and yess, this is it. 🙏🏻

      Best wishes across the pond
      Hanne

      Liked by 1 person

    • Dear Michael,
      I absolutely agree with you, if one wants to use a cliche, first of all, it’s important being fully aware that one uses a cliche. And then one has to try to transform the cliche. Either you go over the top and ironise the cliche or finding an unusual way of presenting the cliche. Actually, then it isn’t cliche any longer. F.e. I like if a cliche is used to make a (political) statement, to show how most of the time we are made to live in a world of cliches. The other day I read Stephen King’s novel “The Institute”. In the second half of this novel, the author uses all cliches of such an action-novel and he is overdoing it. So he ironises the style he is using without making a break by switching to meta-communication but by overdoing it (a kind of alienation – or V-Effekt as B. Brecht called it) that’s an eye-opener. I suppose in the world of pictures one can do something similar.
      Thank you very much for your interesting comment. I always like comments inspiring me to rethink my statements and inspire me.
      With love from sunny Norfolk
      Klausbernd 🙂

      Liked by 2 people

    • Thank you very much my friend. See also the comment I made to Dina. I’ll add one more thing to that: if a particular picture I make turns out to be a cliché it is not because I was trying to make a cliché, or avoid a cliché. I simply liked it. That’s all. I think the reason clichés are clichés is that there’s something about the aesthetic that has a universal appeal. And I have to admit, I am sometimes part of that universe. Although, more often I am not part of that universe. 😉

      My very best to the Fab Four.

      PS. I’m going to read that Stephen King novel.

      Liked by 2 people

    • Dear Michael, my friend,
      I was a writer and never photographed except on my expeditions to the high Arctic (you can see some those pictures here https://kbvollmarblog.wordpress.com/2013/08/02/the-hell/ and on the 3 posts that are listed under the post there – but that’s documentation). Being a writer working with words and ideas I was always reflecting why do I like something knowing that I am full of cliches (my editor always highlighted these in bright red). Usually, my spontaneous liking was not the best solution to express what I wanted to. I had to become aware of why I like something to find the best expression of what I wanted to express. On the other hand, if I see your pictures going for the liking seems to work perfectly well. I really like your photography because of the simple subtleties that arent simplistic.
      Concerning King’s novel, well, it’s cruel. I read it for the style. King uses a lot of cliches of different styles and in the end, he really is overdoing it and by doing so he ironises his style and the genre and there is a political message too, as I read this novel.
      I really like our conversation, thank you very much!
      Keep well, cheers
      Klausbernd 🙂

      Liked by 2 people

    • Thank you very much Klausbernd. Your comments are always fascinating. I love to be in communication with someone who could actually think. I’d like to clarify something: if what I do turns out to be a cliché and I accept it because I like it, that is within the context of my overall taste which tends toward the subtle. In other words, I like it because it matches my personal aesthetic. The idea that it might be a cliché would be entirely coincidental in that sort of instance. King’s novels are often cruel. I don’t generally like them for that reason. I did like 11/22/63. Regardless of the subject, I think he’s an excellent writer. His book, On Writing, is excellent.

      Liked by 2 people

    • Thank you VERY much, dear Michael 🙂 🙂 I blush and giving you the same compliment.
      I haven’t read 11/22/63 – although Nov. 22nd is my birthday. “On Writing” I read several times. This book and Patricia Highsmith’s “Plotting and Writing Suspense Fiction” were for me those books I learned most about writing.
      Wishing you a happy day
      Klausbernd 🙂

      Liked by 1 person

  27. Laughing. Whine all you want. Sunset photos aren’t going to go away. My dad, who loved photography, used to snort and say ‘post card’ photos whenever he saw a sunset photo. And yet— after he died and I was going thought his photos what should I discover: Lots of photos of sunsets. 🙂 Beautiful job Dina. Wow! He, he. –Curt

    Liked by 2 people

  28. Ihr Lieben,
    das ist ein Thema!
    Ist ein schönes Bild (Foto) auch Kunst?
    Da streiten sich die Geister. Ein Sammler meiner Arbeiten meinte einmal bei einer Veranstaltung, dass der “richtige Künstler” in prekären Verhältnissen wohnen sollten, um aus dieser Verzweiflung Kunst schaffen zu können. Die würde dann aus dem tiefsten Inneren kommen.
    Liebe Grüße von Susanne

    Liked by 3 people

    • Ja, liebe Susanne, das ist wirklich ein spannendes Thema, wie man auch an der Reaktion hier sieht, die uns sehr erfreut.
      Meine persönliche Meinung ist, dass ein schönes Fotos eher Gefahr läuft, keine Kunst zu sein. Es ist dekorativ und ich würde es vielleicht sogar aufhängen. Aber um Kunst zu sein, muss für mich ein Bild interessant sein, es muss mich verblüffen oder fesseln. Ich meine auch nicht, dass es aus dem tiefsten Inneren kommen sollte. Ich liebe es mehr, wenn es von klarer Einfachheit oder Klugheit geprägt ist. Wenn das viel zitierte tiefste Innere in Spiel kommt, fühle ich mich in die Zeit des Sturm-und-Drang versetzt, in der ich glücklicher Weise nicht lebe.
      Danke für deine Anregung. Ich muss ‘mal wieder Ecos Bücher über die Schönheit und Hässlichkeit lesen.
      Mit lieben Grüßen vom sonnigen Norden Norfolks
      The Fab Four of Cley
      🙂 🙂 🙂 🙂

      Liked by 1 person

    • Ich denke, Klausbernd, dass das Problem in unserer subjektive Wahrnehmung von “Schön” liegt, was auch der wissenschaftliche Diskurs zum Thema “Schön” zeigt. Wenn Hanne jetzt jeden Tag über einen gewissen Zeitraum (10 Jahre?) immer wieder einen Sonnenuntergang fotografiert, ist diese Serie denn nicht trotz aller Schönheit Kunst?
      Heute gehe ich das erste mal nach dem Lockdown zum Friseur, ich freue mich darauf, denn ich bin ganz zugewachsen. 😉
      Liebe Grüße sendet euch aus einem bewölkten Berlin Susanne

      Liked by 1 person

    • Guten Morgen, liebe Susanne,
      wie war es doch viel einfacher, als man noch normativen Ästhetiken folgte. Für Goethe war es noch klar, dass Schönheit mit Ganzheit zusammenhängt und deswegen Komplementärfarben in Kombination schön sind, davor sah das Mitelalter als schön, was nicht extrem ist, weswegen damals die Farben Rot und Grün als schön galten (Gelb und Blau galten als extreme Farben), die Klassik liebte ihre Symmetrie etc. Nun haben wir `everything goes´ und jeder hat seine eigene Meinung über Schönheit. Relativiert das die Schönheit?
      Interessant, deine Idee über z.B. zehn Jahre den Sonnenuntergang möglichst von gleicher Stelle aus zu fotografieren. Die Serie würde ich als Kunst bezeichnen, aber weniger wegen der Sonnenuntergänge, sondern wegen der Serie. Ich liebe nämlich Serien.
      Meine Haare schneidet Dina und das macht sie echt toll. Bei dir gibt es ja mehr Haar zu bändigen 😉
      Hier haben wir schon wieder knalle Sonne, und es ist bereits ziemlich warm, so dass ich schon in Shorts und T-Shirt herumlaufe. Da wir gestern einen großen Gartentag hatten, werden wir uns heute ums Haus kümmern.
      Mit lieben Grüßen vom Meer
      The Fab Four of Cley
      🙂 🙂 🙂 🙂

      Like

    • Lieber Klausbernd,
      danke für deine Ausführungen zum Thema Farbe. Ich weiss nicht, ob die eigene Meinung die Schönheit relativiert. Ich denke nicht, dass es eine Einschränkung der Schönheit ist, eine eine Meinung zur ihr zu besitzen, es macht sie nur schwer zu fassen, gibt uns als Künstlerinnen / Künstler oder als Betrachterinnen / Betrachter jedoch eine große Freiheit.
      Wir müssen heute auch die Wohnung putzen, es sieht grausig aus, besonders, wenn die Sonne auf die schmutzigen Fenster scheint.
      Liebe Grüße an euch alle von Susanne

      Liked by 1 person

    • Liebe Susanne,
      ich meine, Schönheit ist eine Idee, ein Ideal, es gibt nicht die Schönheit an sich. Alle Aussagen über die Schönheit sind Meinungen über sie. Sind bestimmte Ansichten über die Schönheit verbreitet, dann wird allgemein schön genannt, was diesen Ansichten entspricht. Aber, wenn ich jetzt darüber nachdenke, scheint es auch Elemente zu geben, die immer mit Schönheit verbunden waren und sind wie z.B. Symmetrie. Das ist so mein Vorsichhindenken nach dem Frühstück. Wie gesagt, ich muss nochmal in den Eco zur Schönheit schauen. Ich finde deine Ansicht interessant, dass es eine Einschränkung der Schönheit bedeutet, eine Meinung über sie zu haben. Das hieße, Schönheit ist etwas Emotionales und der definitionsgewohnte Intellekt schadet ihr. Hmmm, dann sollte ich also aufhören, darüber nachzudenken und mache hiermit Schluss.
      Wir werden bei dem wunderbaren Wetter gleich über Land fahren, einen Bauern besuchen, der leckerstes Fleisch von seinen Angus-Rindern verkauft und nach Fotomotiven für minimalistische Bilder Ausschau halten. Wir finden Minimalusmus schön.
      Frohes Fensterputzen, halte dich munter und fröhlich
      Klausbernd und die drei anderen
      🙂 🙂 🙂 🙂

      Like

    • Lieber Klausbernd,
      irgendwie scheinen meine Gedanken zu Schönheit missverständlich von mir ausgedrückt. Ich denke so weiter darüber vor mich hin, bin aber sehr durch unsere Renovierung und dem üblichen Marketingwahn für Künstlerinnen gefangen. Viel zu wenig zeichne ich gerade und wenn halte ich meine Ideen im Skizzenbuch fest.
      Nun eile ich zur Krankengymnastik und hoffe, ihr habt leckeres Rindvieh erstehen können.
      Liebe Grüße sendet euch Susanne

      Liked by 2 people

    • Liebe Susanne,
      das kann ich gut verstehen, dass Anderes gerade wichtiger ist als die Reflektionen über die Schönheit. Bei uns ist gerade der Versuch der Aufpäppelung unserer Wiese zum Rasen wichtige Tagesaktivität. Bei diesem anhaltend schönen Wetter ist das ideal. Wir haben bereits ein Großteil unseres Lebens nach draußen auf die Terrasse verlegt und gelesen und geschrieben wird im Sommerhaus im Garten.
      Wir wünschen dir alles Gute für deine Tegel-Veranstaltung. Ich bin immer gerne von und nach Tegel geflogen, meist viele Male im Jahr.
      Wir hatten mega leckeres Fleisch erstanden, das wir gestern mit Freuden nach der Sauna aßen.
      Wir alle vier senden euch ganz liebe Grüße
      The Fab Four of Cley
      🙂 🙂 🙂 🙂

      Liked by 1 person

    • Lieber Klausbernd,
      ich sehe Tegel mit einem weinenden und einem lachenden Auge gehen. Ich bin auch sehr gerne von Tegel aus geflogen, vor allem, weil er keine 5 km von meinem Atelier entfernt ist, aber gerade in den letzten Monaten vor dem Lockdown sind die Flieger im Minutentakt von 6 Uhr früh bis 23 Uhr Abends über unser Schlafzimmer geflogen. Der Krach war schon immens!
      Hanne schrieb mir, dass ihr beim Gespräch dabei sein wollt. Ich freue mich auf euch 🙂
      Liebe Grüße und einen schönen Tag wünscht euch Susanne

      Liked by 2 people

    • Liebe Susanne,
      ja, der Fluglärm würde mich auch sehr ärgern. Bei meiner Schwester in Köln ist das ähnlich, da sind es die Frachtflugzeuge, die täglich über ihre Wohnung fliegen.
      Wir werden bei dem Gespräch dabei sein und gemeinsam vor Dinas Computer hocken. Wir freuen uns 🙂 🙂
      Mit lieben Grüßen von der heute plötzlich viel kälteren Küste Norfolks
      The Fab Four of Cley
      🙂 🙂 🙂 🙂

      Like

    • Ich freue mich, dass Hanne und du dabei seid, Klausbernd.
      Bei uns ist es heute auch viel kälter. Nachdem die neuen Reisebeschränkungen innerhalb Europas veröffentlicht wurden, haben wir unseren Schottland Urlaub storniert. Es ist eine 14tägige Quarantäne angedacht und Rundreisen sind nicht erwünscht. Die Stornierung ging viel einfacher als gedacht, von den 12 Unterkünften, die ich privat gebucht hatte, wollte nur eine einzige eine Stornierungsgebühr von 70 Pfund. Alle anderen haben unsere Buchungen kostenfrei storniert. Traurig bin ich trotzdem.
      Einen schönen Tag wünscht euch Susanne

      Liked by 2 people

    • Guten Morgen, liebe Susanne,
      endlich hat es diese Nacht zu regnen begonnen. Wir spüren, wie die Natur aufatmet.
      Das ist ja schade, dass ihr dieses Jahr nicht nach Schottland reisen könnt. Aber Ihr könnt wahrscheinlich nächstes Jahr ins romantische Schottland reisen. Dass eine Unterkunft Stornierungsgebühr nahm, finde ich frech.
      Jetzt klart es auf und das sind die idealen Wetterverhältnisse, um unseren Rasen einzusäen. Du glaubst es kaum, was wir alles zur Zeit für unser Grundstück tun. Man sieht es auch deutlich – zum Glück!
      Wir wünschen euch beiden ein angenehmes Wochenende
      The Fab Four of Cley
      🙂 🙂 🙂 🙂

      Liked by 1 person

    • Guten Morgen, Klausbernd,
      ich denke, dass diese Unterkunft an der Insolvens steht. Sie haben sich fast entschuldigt, dass sie Geld haben wollen, sie hätten sich wohl bei ihrem Anwalt erkundigt und der meine, sie wären durchaus berechtigt, das Geld zu nehmen. Ich bin überzeugt, dass wir das Geld, wenn wir uns rechtlichen Beistand nehmen würden, zurück bekämen, einzig ist der Betrag so niedrig, dass der Streß und der Zeitaufwand überwiegt.
      Wir sehen uns nachher im zoom Meeting,
      liebe Grüße an euch alle, Susanne

      Liked by 2 people

    • Nee, liebe Susanne, um den Betrag lohnt es sich wirklich nicht zu streiten. Aber diese Übernachtung würden wir auf unsere Liste der zu Meidenden setzen.
      Bis heute Nachmittag zum Zoom Meeting.
      Mit lieben Grüßen von der sonnig warmen Küste – gleich geht’s zum Fotografieren zum Meer
      The Fab Four of Cley
      🙂 🙂 🙂 🙂

      Liked by 1 person

    • Guten Morgen, 🙂 Klausbernd und Hanne 🙂
      ich habe mich sehr gefreut, euch gestern zu sehen. Vielleicht ist es eine gute Idee, auch mal zu viert zu zoomen.
      Ich habe heute ein Telefon-Gespräch mit einer Professorin von der Universität der Künste. Ich will die Uni und das Thema für meine Promotion wechseln und hoffe, eine Zusage für die Betreuung zu erhalten.
      Ich bin sehr aufgeregt und werde gleich noch etwas zum Thema lesen.
      Liebe Grüße von Susanne

      Liked by 2 people

    • Hallo und guten Tag, liebe Susanne
      ja, es war sehr schön dich gestern zu sehen und hören. Ich hoffe, dein Gespräch mit der Kunstprofessorin ist gut verlaufen und du kannst ohne Probleme die Uni wechseln.
      Ich muss mal kurz eingreifen – gerade so wie Klausbernd es formulierte hatte ich es nicht gemeint. 😉 🙂 Ich war vorhin mit Neueinstellungen im Drive Modus auf der Kamera beschäftigt als Klausbernd fragte und zu Recht meinte, wenn man ein Zoom Meeting vereinbart, sollte man ein Thema haben. Ein Thema für ein Zoom Treffen mit euch zwei hätte ich sofort; wollen wir einen Kunst-Foto (Literatur) Salon hier in Cley machen, nicht per Zoom, vielleicht nächstes Jahr vor Ort? Natur hier vor Ort und Kultur – das hatte ich über die Schulter gerufen. Ihr beide wohnt bei uns und andere TN in B&B in der Umgebung? Ich kann es nicht ausführlich hier besprechen da gerade unser lokaler Hummer- und Krebslieferant in die Einfahrt steht – jedoch können wir es in einem Zoom Meeting bequatschen. Wann passt es für euch?
      LG
      Hanne

      Liked by 1 person

    • Liebe Hanne,
      ich habe den ersten Teil der Antwort bei Klausbernd geschrieben und schreibe nun hier weiter.
      Ich freue mich sehr über euren Vorschlag und werde mit Micha darüber reden. 🙂
      Vielleicht können wir nächste Woche zu viert über zoom quatschen. Die Woche ist am Anfang voll bei mir und Donnerstag ist hoffentlich meine Entzündung im Zahnfleisch abgeklungen, damit der Zahn gezogen werden kann. Ich habe schon eine Flasche entzündungshemmendes Mundwasser vergurgelt, langsam wird es besser.
      Ein Kunst-Foto-Literatur Salon – toll! Findet der dann in englischer Sprache statt? Oder in einem Gemisch?
      Wollen wir diesen Freitag, den 28. Juni, 17 Uhr zu viert miteinander quatschen?
      Ich freue mich sehr, liebe Grüße an euch aus einem extrem sonnigen Berlin 🙂 von Susanne

      Like

    • Liebe Susanne,
      wir drücken dir fest die Daumen, dass dieses Gespräch mit der Kunstprofessorin zu deiner Zufriedenheit verläuft.
      Wir fanden es auch richtig schön, dich gestern zu sehen und zu hören. Mir fiel noch zum Thema ein, dass eine der Faszinationen des Fliegens darin liegt, dass man die Dinge im größeren Zusammenhang sieht. Das passte allerdings nicht so ganz in diese Situation des Gesprächs.
      Ich persönlich finde zoomen ideal, gerade weil man die Zeit des Kontaktes abspricht. Dass man einfach so jederzeit kontaktiert werden kann wie bei anderen Medien, finde ich eher störend. Wir können das gerne machen. Eine Idee, die Dina gerade ansprach, wir können einen Salon hier bei uns machen und andere per Zoom einladen. Da ging es dann um Themen, die Kunst wie bildende Kunst, Fotografie und vielleicht auch Literatur betreffen. Das können wir uns überlegen. Ihr kommt zu uns – ihr habt ja noch einen Gutschein für einen Besuch bei uns – und andere laden wir virtuell ein.
      Hier ist’s heute bewölkt und ab und an nieselt es. Eigentlich wollten wir zum Strand, aber so machen wir es uns gemütlich zu Hause.
      Mit lieben Grüßen
      The Fab Four of Cley
      🙂 🙂 🙂 🙂

      Like

    • Lieber Klausbernd,
      es tut mir leid, dass ich so spät antworte.
      Ich hatte Zahnschmerzen, musste zum Zahnarzt, wurde mit dem Skalpell behandelt und bereite auch noch zwei Workshops für den bbk für heute und morgen (jeweils 5 Stunden) für den bbk vor.
      Puh… das ist viel.
      Das Gespräch mit der Professorin hat sehr gut geklappt, ich werde zum Wintersemester zur udk wechseln (freu!!!).
      Ich finde eure Idee, einen Salon nächstes Jahr real bei euch zu machen super gut. Ich freue mich sehr darüber. Micha telefoniert gerade im Galerieraum und ich sitze im Arbeitszimmer und schaue, was für Kommentare geschrieben wurden. 🙂 Ich würde sehr gerne wieder über meinem Geburtstag bei euch sein, also der 8. April. Ich würde sogar unseren EasyJet Flug nach Glasgow, den wir noch stornieren oder in einen Gutschein umwandeln müssen, versuchen umzubuchen. Ich müsste aber erstmal mit Micha darüber reden.
      So jetzt schreibe ich bei Hannes Kommentar weiter. 😉 😉
      Also noch keine Grüße sonden ein Weiterleiten ….

      Liked by 1 person

    • Lieber Pit,
      leider nicht, aber ich versuche den Schmerz zu verdrängen, da ich morgen und übermorgen unterrichte. Da kann ich den ollen Zahn gerade gar nicht gebrauchen.
      Liebe Grüße,
      Susanne

      Liked by 1 person

    • Liebe Susanne
      Gute Besserung! Wir hoffen, deinem Kiefer geht’s schnell wieder gut.
      Ich war heute fast den ganzen Tag im Garten und hatte gar nicht in meinen Rechner geschaut.
      Ja, dem steht gar nichts im Wege, dass ihr über deinen Geburtstag kommt. Ihr seid herzlich willkommen. Salon von Cley aus, das ist doch schick 😉
      Na super, dass du im WS zur zur UDK wechseln kannst. Ich las gerade im Netz, dass dies ja eine altehrwürdige Institution ist. Ich habe immer gerne an altehrwürdigen Unis studiert und dabei u.a. Münster lieben gelernt.
      Über alles Weitere betr. Treffen & Salon am Meer mailen wir ‘mal hin und her und freuen uns schon sehr
      Klausbernd 🙂

      Like

    • Guten Morgen, Klausbernd,
      ja, meinem Kiefer geht es seit gestern wieder besser und ich vergesse die Schmerzen schon wieder. Morgen soll ich zu meiner Zahnärztin, damit sie den Zahn zieht. Da muss ich mit ihr nochmal reden, ob das wirklich nötig ist 😉
      Micha und ich freuen uns, euch nächstes Jahr zu sehen und wir hoffen, dass sich bisdahin die Reisebedingungen verbessert haben. Alles weitere per Mail 🙂
      Ich werde mir jetzt mein von der Verlegerin lektoriertes Manusskript vornehmen und ihre Änderungsvorschläge durchgehen. Der Balkon eignet sich dafür vortrefflich, er ist noch morgentlich kühl.
      Liebe Grüße sendet euch Susanne

      Liked by 2 people

    • Liebe Susanne,
      Super, dass es deinem Kiefer wieder einigermaßen gut geht. Ja, so kommt man sich mit jedem gezogenen Zahn abhanden, wie es Balzac bedauerte.
      Wir hoffen doch sehr, dass die Reisebedingungen nächstes Jahr sich normalisiert haben.
      Liebe Grüße von der hochsommerlichen Küste
      The Fab Four of Cley
      🙂 🙂 🙂 🙂

      Liked by 2 people

    • Oh dear, ich sehe es, ich habe dich, liebe Dina missverstanden.
      Deine Idee finde ich auch bedenkenswert. Wir müssen uns bei Gelegenheit darüber austauschen.
      Liebe Grüße an euch alle
      Klausbernd 🚶‍♂️

      Liked by 2 people

  29. This is a beautiful image (the first one) and it is not a cliché in my opinion because it retains its original innocence in that it shows what any competent eye will see and experience as simply beautiful without any hidden agenda. Even if it was reproduced a hundred times it would still hold this beauty. Cliché I’d like to say would be an image that pretends, i.e. trying very hard to be beautiful in order to … fulfilling the parameters of any kind of or assumed standard or hidden agenda and as such becoming tainted, i.e. clichéd. Beauty is just that, without any interference, catching and representing a rare moment of truth which can be held for a moment before it slips away. Having caught such a moment must be a wonderfully satisfying experience for the photographer, worth all the efforts of long waits and walks and disappointments. From the many of Dina’s images I have seen before, I can imagine how glad and possibly proud she must be to have captured this simply beautiful treasure of a moment in space and time. Thank you for sharing it,

    Liked by 2 people

    • Dear Colleen & Walter, thank you for your kind words and interesting thoughts on the subject. How is life treating the two of you in your spiritual retreat in Stellenbosch? We live in a very remote part of England and rather secluded, still good to keep a distance. We don’t go out much, so the walk to the next village to watch the high tide and the sunset was a treat. It looks so different at low tide with no water, the boats lying scattered on the mudflats and even these facts made it special to me.
      Now the restrictions are less rigid and the traffic yesterday on a Bank Holiday was almost back to normal, but people still try to keep a distance which brings me back to your last blog post. (Have you read the brilliant “The Schopenhauer Cure” by Irvin Yalom?) Thanks for explaining and bringing the situation in Africa closer to us. I have just made a virtual visit to India where they are facing immense problems with a lockdown with 64 million living in slums, the collateral damage and the fact Religion is bigger than science ⇒ a soaring number of deaths, much higher than the official numbers. Thanks again for being so supportive. x

      Liked by 1 person

    • Thank you very much, dear Colleen and Walter 🙂 🙂
      That’s a definition of a cliche I find interesting. The problem is how do we define beauty. A lot of people wrote about it, for my liking the best studies are the two books by Umberto Eco about beauty and ugliness in art. In the theory of reception, a cliche is not connected with beauty or ugliness it’s a matter of how often the onlooker has seen something similar. The idea is that art like photography and painting has to show something new or at least something unexpected. If it doesn’t it’s called a cliche. That’s one possible definition. I think that makes sense because you avoid having to define what’s beauty. Up to the Romantic period, that was easy as people believed in normative aesthetics but that came to an end.
      Wishing you all the best, keep well
      Klausbernd 🙂

      Like

  30. I know it is not the same as being there, but one can’t help wanting to share something of that feeling in that moment. One would have to be dead inside not to be moved.
    The editing is an effort to convey the essence of that feeling. That’s what i think anyway. 😊 I approach this topic from the perspective of someone who is newly enthusiastic about the camera as an artistic tool.
    Thank you, Klausbernd and Dina, for sharing some magic. We can all do with that now.

    Liked by 2 people

  31. Plumps, dann fällt die Sonne hinten unten aus dem Bild und dann ist auf der anderen Seite Sonnenaufgang.
    Das sage ich, weil das Bild ja schon ein schweres und bedrückendes Thema anspricht. Eigentlich.
    It´s a ship.
    Jetzt muss ich nochmals nachschauen wie das Wort Klischee geschrieben wird…
    Vom Tanzraum aus erleben wir jeden Abend fantastische Sonnenuntergänge, machmal wird das Tanzen auch unterbrochen, das Farbenspiel ist einfach zu staunenswert.
    Ganz selten machen wir ein Foto.
    Das Gefühl ist traurig-dankbar-demütig-ergreifend-erhaben-schöninnig.
    Wenn ich merken würde, dass ich irgendwie klischeehaft wäre, eng, starr, enttäuscht, weil es nicht so läuft, wie ich will oder erwartet habe, wenn ich also rechthaberisch, stur, grausam, manipulativ, besitzergreifend, zu ängstlich und sicherheitsbedürftig – schlicht zum Kotzen werde, und es selbst bemerke, würde ich mir die Zähne mit der linken Hand putzen, als erste Maßnahme. Tipp von Ajahn Brahm.
    Bei Linkshändern dann wohl mit der rechten.
    Dinas Foto finde ich überwältigend atmosphärisch, es klingt toll!
    Frei nach St. Martin: Rabimmel, rabammel, rabum.
    Habt es gut!

    Liked by 2 people

    • Guten Morgen, liebes Pialein,
      also nach meinem Verständnis ist etwas klischeehaft, wenn alles so läuft wie erwartet. Das Klischee ist die vollständige Erfüllung der Erwartung, kein Widerstand, man könnte auch sagen, im Grunde ist es langweilig. Nach meinem ersten Studium schrieb ich ein wissenschaftliches Buch über diese rezeptionstheoretischen Ansichten (kam in der Reihe Europäische Hochschulschriften heraus – ich verstehe es heute nicht mehr). Du liebst doch stets Literaturhinweise, zwei wunderschön bebilderte Bücher mit klugem Text schrieb Umberto Eco über das Schöne und das Hässliche. Huch, und ich muss zugeben, dass ich das Hässliche interessanter fand.
      Nach knalle Sonnenschein die letzten Tage mit sanft pastelligen Sonnenuntergängen ist es heute bedeckt und was wir selten haben, es ist windstill.
      Ich musste auch nachschauen, wie man im Englischen cliche schreibt, eben mit einem normalen und nicht mit einem französichen é.
      Ganz liebe Grüße von uns in Cley, juchei – Ach noch `was, witzig, dass du auch dieses ‘Rabimmel, rabammel, rabum’ kennst. Ich dachte, das sei etwas Rheinisches, aber ich vergesse immer, dass du ja auch unweit vom Rhein wohnst.
      Mache dirs fein, bleib gesund und munter
      The Fab Four of Cley
      🙂 🙂 🙂 🙂

      Like

    • Da gehe ich ganz Zen artig vor: Niesetikette bei Kindern wird bleiben, dass man, wenn es passiert, ein Taschentuch bereit hält und Gesundheit wünscht, Blessings.
      Keinesfalls wird Pia den Kleinkindern einreden, dass sie mit Niesen zum potenziellen Mörder werden…
      Ebenso bei Husten.
      Gewisse Benimmregeln gelten schon immer, müssen aber ohne großes Theater eingeübt und selbstverständlich werden.
      Schöne Dinge gefallen mir, hässliche Dinge nicht, aber interessieren mich, Danke für die Buchtipps!
      Aufgesetzte Schönheit, also die, die nicht von Innen kommt, die aus Wärme, Liebe, Güte, Freude (z.B bei schönen Menschen) entsteht, gefällt mir weder noch interessiert sie mich groß.
      Gute Woche euch!
      Lustig, dass du selbst nicht mehr verstehst, was du geschrieben hast…abgeschält?

      Liked by 1 person

    • Liebe Pia,
      bis zu etwa meinem dreißigsten Lebensjahr habe ich ein wissenschaftliches Buch und einige Aufsätze für wissenschasftliche Publikationen geschrieben, die von der hochintellektuellen Atmosphäre der Unis geprägt waren. Seit langem lebe ich nicht mehr in dieser Umgebung und habe Schwierigkeiten, meine alten Texte zu verstehen. Das macht aber nichts, da mich heute anderes interessiert. An der Uni muss man extrem spezialisiert sein, um Erfolg zu haben. In meinem alltäglichen Leben heute finde ich ein breites Wissen interessanter, aber das ist eben nicht so tief und differenziert. Aber mir genügt es.
      Das Problem von Schönheit und Klischee finde ich immer noch spannend. Besonders der Aspekt Klischee ist ziemlich aktuell, da Populismus die Klischees liebt, die meist eine krude Mischung von Halbwissen und Lügen sind.
      Mit ganz lieben Grüßen vom sonnig warmen Meer
      Klausbernd 🙂

      Like

    • Die Wahrheit wäre schön und gut zu wissen. Die 4-6jährigen Kinder sind mit Zoom happy, heute haben zum ersten mal einige Muttis mitgetanzt. Das war ganz wunderbar!
      Alle glücklich und dankbar für diese Möglichkeit.
      Wunderbarer Sonnenuntergang heute!

      Liked by 1 person

    • Guten Morgen, liebe Pia,
      wenn ich mich dunkel erinnere, meinte Brecht einmal, dass es weniger die Wahrheit als Meinungen über die Wirklichkeit gebe. Da hat er ja nicht so unrecht.
      Auch hier haben wir z.Zt. jeden Abend beeindruckende Sonnenuntergänge.
      Lasse es dir gut gehen 🙂
      Alles Liebe
      The Fab Four of Cley
      🙂 🙂 🙂 🙂

      Like

    • Jetzt google ich mal die Zahlen 19 und 50, gerade “recherchierte” ich Pictor. Also, ich ließ mich im Netz vom Hundersten ins Tausendste treiben, was Zeit kostet, aber interessant ist…
      Zwei Semester Germanistik und Geschichte in Heidelberg lassen mich ahnen, von was du sprichst.
      Das Theater mit dem Trainingssaal über dem Neckar gefiel mir besser. Da waren Menschen. An der Uni, vielleicht lag es an der Zeit damals, war es schrecklich. In den Unikneipen sehr merkwürdige Männer.
      Meine Arbeit über die Templer und Zisterzienser, ich fühle noch den Staub der dicken und seeeeehr alten Buchseiten, war das letzte, was ich dort fertig stellte.
      Es ist spannend zu sehen, was Dina veränderte, welche Ursachen welche Wirkung erzielen.
      Gerade rief Herr Spiegel an, es gibt mehr Postkästen oder Briefkästen am Schillerplatz zu montieren und die Frage ist: wo kommen die hin…
      Dann werde ich dem netten Mann mal helfen.
      Dat wor ne jode Mann am Telefon.
      Auch wenn es vielleicht echt überflüssig wird, das mit den Briefkästen…geht ja alles per Mail…
      Danke liebe Fab4s, lasst es euch gut gehen!

      Liked by 1 person

    • Oh, da tippten wir zeitgleich und jetzt erst lese ich das Schöne über Brecht….
      Das Netz fängt mich immer wieder ein: frage mich gerade selbst, wie es geht, dass man von Schuldenmoratorium zu zwanghafter Anordnug von Kelchkommunion kommen kann, mit nur 2 klicks…
      So, tschüühüß, kann jetzt leider den Herrn Spiegel nicht warten lassen…
      Liebdrücker vom Pialein

      Liked by 1 person

    • ….ach, ich weiß, weil der liebe Rino, der unseren Musical Baum sang, zuvor den schönen Sigismund im Rössl spielte …
      Ok, das kann man nicht verstehen, muss man auch nicht, das ist nur Wirklichkeit, es wirkte, wieso, weshalb, warum, weiß man nicht – irgendein ordnender Geist, hoffe ich…
      Alles Liebe und Schöne und Gute zu euch nach Cley!!!

      Liked by 1 person

    • Liebe Pia,
      so toll das Netz für schnelle Recherchen ist, wenn es nicht so darauf ankommt, so sehr ist es auch ein Zeiträuber. Es fängt einen ein wie jedes Netz.
      Es ist erstaunlich, wie die Informationen von Mausklick zu Mausklick sich verknüpfen. Da sind wir fast verführt die Platüde zu erwähnen, dass alles mit allem verbunden ist.
      Mit lieben Grüßen und viel Spaß beim Bestimmen der Plätze für die Briefkästen
      The Fab Four of Cley
      🙂 🙂 🙂 🙂

      Like

    • Thank you very much, dear Camille. We live in a kind of sunset-area, a lot of sky and the sea. But extraordinary was the view without people because of the lockdown.
      We’ll send some grand sunsets over to you. Siri 🙂 and 🙂 Selma work on this with their powerful fairy magic.
      All the best, keep well
      The Fab Four of Cley
      🙂 🙂 🙂 🙂

      Like

  32. Each day’s sunset differs from every other. Some are stereotypically beautiful, filled with color and dramatic or ephemeral clouds. Others are hardly noticeable: gray and leaden, fading imperceptibly into night. To raise a lens and click away at color is one thing. To focus on whatever it is that makes this sunset different from every other is the trick. Do that, and worries about cliches fly out the window.

    Liked by 2 people

    • Dear Linda,
      one could say every day’s sunset is similar too. It always depends on why you have taken this picture. We agree if it for documentation purpose or only for ourselves we don’t need to worry about cliches. But if we want to publish it it’s different. It’s important how the receiver will receive it. The producers have to serve the receivers. And there the cliche comes in because they serve the receivers best by presenting something interesting, something unexpected and that has to be planned and thought about. If the picture is presented as art then another dimension comes in as well, how relates that picture to other pictures, to the history of pictures.
      Thanks a lot for commenting.
      All the best
      The Fab Four of Cley
      🙂 🙂 🙂 🙂

      Liked by 1 person

  33. I’ve resisted sunsets, but not entirely. I worry that they tend to be cliched, but I agree with your point about the importance of what you do with the subject. I like both versions of the first photo – but the second is more restful, for sure. The third image is really lovely – it has is simple beauty but there’s also a lot to look at – what a sky! Very well done! Yes, you deserve a drink. 🙂

    Liked by 2 people

    • Dear Lynn,
      thank you so much, for your kind words 🙂 🙂
      We find it exciting watching Dina changing the original photography with all her post-production tools. It’s amazing how only slight changes change the mood of the picture.
      Dina got her drink 😉 Cheers! By the way, our dear Dina admires your gallery on your blog.
      All the best
      The Fab Four of Cley
      🙂 🙂 🙂 🙂

      Liked by 1 person

    • Thank you very much, dear Julie 🙏🙏
      We are happy that you like Dina’s photography 🙂 🙂
      We wish you great sunsets.
      All the best
      The Fab Four of Cley
      🙂 🙂 🙂 🙂

      Liked by 1 person

  34. Ich finde man muss nochmals erwähnen, dass Dinas Fotos wahre Kunstwerke sind. An sich finde ich Aufnahmen der untergehenden Sonne im Dämmerlicht, nach langem Lesen, Studieren und (Über)legen, auch eher erschreckend einfältig und extrem kitschig.
    Hilfreich sind auch immer die Telefonate meiner Nachbarin, jeden morgen eine Stunde, mit Maria.
    Wer immer Maria ist, scheint sie nicht so richtig zu verstehen, um was es im echten Leben geht. Meine Nachbarin redet fast immer übers Essen, allerdings muss sie immer “hoch schlafen”(?) wegen ihrem Magen.
    Wir tanzen wieder.
    Wir haben die Angst (fast) überwunden, Lösungen zur Einhaltung der Kronen Auflagen gefunden, geschwitzt wie Schmorbraten – und dann dieser herrliche Regen.
    Die Natur atmet auf!
    Möchte kein verchippter Maschinenmensch und auch kein Hardcorematerialist werden.
    Schatten an der Wand. Es kann sein, es wachsen neue Blumen.
    Immer weiter auf der Suche nach Auswegen oder Einwegen.
    Man muss sich selbst ein wenig überwachen und hoffentlich verstehen warum und wozu man was, wann tut.
    Glaube ich…
    Macht es gut!
    Euer Pialein

    Liked by 3 people

    • Liebes Pialein,
      auch hier hat es ENDLICH diese Nacht zu regnen begonnen und immerhin den ganzen Vormittag geregnet. Man spürt geradezu, wie die Natur aufatmet.
      Toll, dass dir Dinas Fotografie gefällt; uns auch.
      Alles Liebe vom kleinen Dorf am großen Meer
      The Fab Four of Cley
      🙂 🙂 🙂 🙂

      Liked by 1 person

    • Ab morgen zeigt das Nationaltheater Mannheim “Dorian” online.
      In voller Länge NTM Digital. Es ist eine Demiere, eine ganze Woche lang, ich staune.
      Ansonsten habe ich Lust auf ganz viel Neues, neue Musik, neue Stücke, neue Klänge, neue Ideen…Näh- und Kochkurse, alles, was einem nachhaltigen und bewussterem, möglichst kreativem Umgang mit Zeit, Energie und Ressourcen entspricht.
      Mal gespannt, ob es möglich ist! Die Voraussetzungen dazu sind gegeben, die Leute nehmen nicht mehr alles so selbstverständlich und viele wollen anders leben.
      Happy Weekend und liebste Grüße

      Liked by 2 people

    • Liebe Pia,
      wir lasen gerade über “Dorian”. Das hört sich echt spannend an. Uns interessieren ja immer diese Auseinandersetzungen um das Ästhetische. Danke für den Hinweis 🙏🙏
      Endlich regnet es hier in ernstzunehmenden Mengen. Da ist es so gemütlich im Haus mit Lesen, Schreiben und Unsinn machen. Und du willst Neues machen. Nur zu! Wir wünschen dir viel Freude und Erfolg damit. Für uns ist seit dem Lockdown das Neuste, dass wir richtig toll kochen und uns auch viel Zeit fürs Kochen nehmen. Das Essen wird dann auch zelebriert. Das gute Porzellan wird aufgetischt und das Silbersteck, um das Essen zu ehren. Ja, das ist völlig neu für uns.
      Mit lieben Grüßen vom Meer
      The Fab Four of Cley
      🙂 🙂 🙂 🙂

      Liked by 1 person

    • Gero von Wilpert, Silberjodid, Imitatio und Mimesis…bis der Schädel qualmt lese ich und staune…
      Wie alles zusammenhängt
      Dieses hawaiianische Instrument, das aussieht wie ein Baby Körper heißt Ipu.
      Gestern war es schwer die Kinder zu diszipliniertem Training zu ermuntern, der Mond? Sie waren sehr müde und erschöpft. Vielleicht war ich es auch…..
      Lumindance geht weiter, aber es ist echt anstrengend…
      Liebste Grüße vom Pialein

      Liked by 2 people

    • Liebes Pialein,
      wie kommst du denn auf Gero von Wilpert? Der war während meines Germanistikstudiums eine der Koryphäen, ich habe noch heute sein “Sachwörterbuch der Literatur” – und halte es in Ehren. Er ist ja eine Autorität in Bezug auf Literaturwissenschaft. Und wie hängt der mit Silberjodid zusammen, das in der Fotografie der Vorgänger von Silberbromid war. Die Verbindung zu Imitatio und Mimesis ist da schon deutlicher zur Literaturwissenschaft. Anyway …
      Nach einem tollen Standtag gestern, machen wir es uns heute zu Hause gemütlich, da es wolkenverhangen ist. Da sollten wir doch glatt Silberjodid in die Wolken schießen, dass sie sich abregnen und es wieder sonnig und warm wird 😉
      Gerade lieferte uns ein Fischer Hummer und Krebse, die wir heute Abend mit dem Rosé unseres weinvertreibenden Nachbarn genießen werden.
      Mit ganz lieben Grüßen von der Küste
      The Fab Four of Cley
      🙂 🙂 🙂 🙂

      Liked by 1 person

    • Das klappte über die Kröner-Erna-Klemm-Linie, dass ich auf Silberjodid kam…
      Aha, Silberbromid und die Fotografie.
      Da fällt mir ein, dass ich mal “Silber” von Kerstin Gier geschickt bekam, ohne es bestellt zu haben.
      Das liegt daran, dass hier die Postboten echt vernebelt sind von Zeit zu Zeit…
      Die große Chemiefabrik hier ist ja vom Produzieren von Magnetbändern zur Aufzeichnung musikalischer Schwingungen längst abgekommen.
      Das waren noch Zeiten, wenn man für eine Ballettaufführung einzelne Tonbandstreifen gut verkleben musste…nix mit Lieder kürzen, schneller oder langsamer ablaufen lassen, das dauerte 10-15 Stunden die große Spule herzustellen.
      Hier stinkt es oft.
      Jetzt schaue ich kurz, warum eine nette Frau bei mir Linedance lernen möchte, ich kann gar kein Linedance???
      Chemie abgewählt, aber Physik interessiert mich nach wie vor, Welle und Teilchen und alles ein Brei…
      Tanzen ist ziemlich umfassend, sehr praktisch.
      Wünsche euch eine schöne Zeit mit allem, was euch Freude bereitet und sende herzliche Grüße!
      Sagte ich ja schon mal: If life is on stage I want better lightning.
      Jonas fischt heute am Rhein…rein meditativ denke ich…

      Liked by 2 people

    • Liebes Pialein,
      die Chemie ist mir auch relativ dunkel geblieben. Wir hatten da einen völlig unfähigen jungen Lehrer, wohingegen ich mich für Physik noch heute begeistern kann. Da hatten wir unseren Klassenlehrer in Mathematik und Physik, der den Unterricht echt spannend gestalten konnte.
      Hier angeln ja auch stets einige am Meer. Ich glaube denen geht’s weniger um die Fische, als um die meditative Ruhe und von zu Hause wegzukommen. Ist es dir schon aufgefallen, die Angler sind bis auf sehr wenige Ausnahmen stets Männer.
      Wir wünschen dir ein wunderbares Wochenende, mach’s gut.
      Liebe Grüße
      Klausbernd und
      The Fab Four of Cley
      🙂 🙂 🙂 🙂

      Liked by 1 person

  35. Cliches are always difficult to deal with. It’s easy to criticize them or those making the cliches, but if someone finds joy in them, why not? I totally agree that a sunset is the ultimate cliche and any reproduction is just too easy to finish off. Done with, as Klausbernd points out. And certainly, in my workshops I don’t “accept” sunsets, at least if the sunset itself is the subject. At the same time we should be careful about becoming art critics who can’t appreciate simple beauty – cliche or not. 🙂

    Liked by 3 people

    • Thank you very much, dear Otto 🙏🙏
      following G.F.W. Hegel, there aren’t cliches in nature but in art. In his “Aesthetics” he made the difference between the `Naturschöne´ (the beauty of nature) and the `Kulturschöne´ (the beauty in art) and for me that makes sense. I can appreciate sunsets in nature but not as a picture, these are two cups of tea (as the English say). But, of course, this leads on to the more general question about beauty and ugliness. I suppose I am quite influenced by Umberto Eco’s books about this topic. How we see beauty, ugliness and cliches changes all the time and it’s dependant on fashion and the group we belong to. On the other hand, I am a simple mind and would rather like to have some objectives that make a picture beautiful or not. Maybe something like this exists and it’s even based on the physiological structure of our perception like the Golden Cut, symmetry etc. Using them, we wouldn’t see this as a cliche although they are used for ages. Anyway, I find the reflections of what a cliche is not easy – and that’s for us, the Fab Four, an ideal topic to blog about to understand all the dimensions of this problem.
      We wish you all the best. Keep well
      The Fab Four of Cley
      🙂 🙂 🙂 🙂

      Liked by 1 person

    • I have no problems in seeing the distinction that Hegel points to. And I think we agree, as I usually find sunset “in real” much more interesting than depicted. But I also think labeling something in and of itself makes us not see potentially other qualities—no matter what it is were are labeling (and we do label everything by the way). So rejecting a picture of a sunset on general ground as a cliche, might cause us to not see when it actually might be of higher aesthetic or emotional value, even if it only happens once among thousands of sunset photos. By the way, I enjoy the reference to Umberto Eco as he was one of my favourite contemporary writers.

      Liked by 1 person

    • Dear Otto,
      if a picture has an emotional value for the photographer that’s fine. But it doesn’t need to be published because that’s an individual value for the photographer but not (necessarily) for the perceivers. Anyway, we told Dina better to avoid taking pictures of sunsets.
      Wishing you all the best
      The Fab Four of Cley
      🙂 🙂 🙂 🙂

      Liked by 2 people

  36. Ihr Lieben, dieser Satz hat mir gut gefallen “The cliche is the known that frees us to deal with it.”, weil wir dann ganz schnell zu unserem Drink gehen können, anstatt etwas doch genauer anzusehen und eventuell überrascht zu werden! Cari saluti Martina

    Liked by 3 people

  37. A very interesting discussion – as usual. Should I photograph a sunset, it must be very special – to me. I think for me, it is totally an emotional thing. I live through them and feel the ending of the day. Often it makes me very sentimental, reminding me of how short our life is. Generally I don’t take out my camera – unless the experience is something extra. Like in the Ecuadorian jungle or at sea between the Galapagos islands. I think the sound is important, and photographs don’t come with the sound of the sea or the jungle. I prefer the real thing.

    Liked by 1 person

    • Dear Leya,
      photographing a sunset because it moved one in the situation is fine, but to present it to others is different. It reminds us of people who can’t stop showing their holiday pictures that mean a lot to them but it’s utterly boring for an outsider, someone who wasn’t there.
      We prefer the real thing as you dol.
      Thanks and cheers
      The Fab Four of Cley
      🙂 🙂 🙂 🙂

      Like

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